My Christmas Day find.

[jiggerman]

While I was looking for the rotating base for my retro Christmas tree my found two rotary phones in the shed I didn't know I had. One was a pink Northern Electric Princess phone from 1960 # 701B. The other is a Western Electric that doesn't show up very often here in Quebec. It's moss green and dated 2-53. I was quite excited upon seeing the date, I figured it was my first soft plastic phone. Once I had taken it apart the shell and the dial were dated 66. I was wondering if the phone was originally black and than completely refurbished with the green parts. Please let me know what you think. Not soft plastic but still very happy with my find.  Thanks, Jiggerman

[LarryInMichigan]

Very nice, jiggerman, and you can't beat the price.  I am partial to the moss green, even if the shell isn't the original.  My moss green 500 has white splotches all over it.  I have 55 beige and yellow WE 500s and a 56 554 which all have later ABS plastic shells.  It was common for the phone companies to recycle phone components.  The bases and networks are nearly indestructible, so they may have lived many lives under different shells.

Larry

[AET]

You didn't have those phones. Santa left them in your shed.

[Dan/Panther]

Tom;
I went to my shed, and all I found, that I didn't know was already there, were a few spots of mouse poop. What are you trying to tell me here ??
D/P

[gpo706]

I'm scared to go to my shed now, sure there was a 500 marked "1949" somewhere on it..

[Dennis Markham]

Jiggerman, more than likely that Moss Green did start out as a black, however according to Paul F.'s site, Moss Green was made in 1953.  I noticed that the ringer is the earlier C2A ringer too.  It looks like maybe the dial frame is the 3-point frame?  A couple of outward clues that the phone saw the refurb shop is the hard center finger wheel and the handset cord.  Although it is evident that the dial remained one of the earlier 7 series dials (as evidenced by the wide opening in the dial ring and finger stop support) which is often not the case once the plastics are changed.  If you look on the back side of the dial mechanism it should have a color suffix (-3 for black) that may be a clue as to the original color of the phone.  As I mentioned the handset cord is evidence of a later cord because of the tapered end that extends from the handset.  An original Moss Green cord from the 1950's would have the stubby end.  In 1953 when the Moss Green phone was released it more than likely had a straight gray handset cord or a gray coiled cord.  I'm not sure exactly when the colored coiled cords made their appearances but I think it was later than 1953, perhaps early to mid 1955?  I'm sure we've discussed this before but don't remember now the exact date.

It is still a nice phone with the leather foot pads and early dial.  If you wanted to you could probably find a soft center finger wheel to put on the phone.  If the plastic is from 1966 that's probably the date on the strain relief hook on the cord too.

[Dennis Markham]

Jiggerman, I just reread what you wrote---that the shell and the dial are from '66.  Are you sure about the dial?  I'm not sure they were still producing the #7 dial in 1966.  Is it possible it's from '56?  Looking at the enlarged photo of your handset cord strain relief I see and "8".  Perhaps that cord is dated 68?

[AET]

I'm telling you that your shed isn't too much fun.  I've got a garage on loan from Dad and it's got a 79 Buick Electra, orange recliner chairs, console TV's, and some other random odds and ends as far as antiques go.

Tom;
I went to my shed, and all I found, that I didn't know was already there, were a few spots of mouse poop. What are you trying to tell me here ??
D/P

[jiggerman]

You didn't have those phones. Santa left them in your shed.

You're probably right.....Santa did leave them. I don't remember buying them and Santa knew I wanted a Western Electric phone. Jiggerman

[jiggerman]

Hello ,
           I want to thank everyone for their help, you guys are a wealth of information. Dennis you are right about the dial. The shell is marked 66 and 68 on the cord. I removed the dial from the body and it is marked 2-53 with a digit underneath. Would this be the color code you mentioned. I'll post a picture of the dial. Thanks again you are a great help. Jiggerman

[Dennis Markham]

Jiggerman, that dial is the earlier 7A series dial.  I have had a few of those and they did not have a color suffix on them.  More than likely it was on a black phone originally.  Both of my two-tone sets have 7A dials.  I'm not 100% sure but I believe the I indicates it was manufactured at the Indianapolis plant.  The 300 series phones are often stamped with I (Indianapolis), S (Shreeveport), A (Atlanta) and there may be more.

I have found, at least it seems, that the 7A's are just a tad bit smoother operating than the 7C or 7D series dials.  Be careful if you decide to take the dial apart.  I had the the hub go springing past my ear one time after I removed the hex nut that holds the finger wheel retainer clip. 

That date in 67 is probably a repair date.  I cannot see the other number.  It looks like a "2".  Because the plastic dial bezel is the type that fits a 7 series dial, I wouldn't be surprised if it is soft plastic.  It's difficult to tell with those.  Since the housing plastic is dated '66 is COULD be hard plastic from '66.  I'm surprised they didn't update with the later #9 series dial which would require a different bezel.  But as we've discussed before, they used what they had and didn't waste anything.  That's a good thing in this case, that older dial is better (in my opinion) than the later dial. 

So it looks like the base of the phone with the 2/53 bottom date, 425B Network date, C2A ringer and Dial date are all original or have stayed together.  The three point dial bracket was used then to hold the dial in proper alignment for the opening in the housing.  Notice on your 7A dial that the little nubs are missing that are normally seen where the side bracket screws are located.  Those nubs normally fit into two holes at the top of the vertical mounting bracket.  But since yours is the early one those holes are not present and the slots for mounting the dial are horizontal, not vertical like later brackets.

Mechanically speaking it's a great phone.  If you were so inclined you could watch for a 1953 black housing and G1 handset and return it to it's original state....or just leave it the way it is!

[jiggerman]

Hi Dennis, Thanks for the lesson on my phone, you've been a real help. It's amazing how much you can learn when you have a phone in front of you and can take it apart. I was thinking of getting an early black housing and getting it to it's original state but I'll probably leave it the way it is. That's its history so I'll just leave it alone. Got 2 feet of snow yesterday so I'll be heading up to our hunting camp in the mountains this afternoon. No running water, no electricity, an outhouse, big cookstove. Peace and quiet. Thanks again guys, Jiggerman