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newbie needs help with western electric 325

Started by rodnokn6, November 04, 2012, 11:00:55 PM

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rodnokn6

Greetings all  What a great forum... This is my first post. Let me start off by saying I have worked for ma bell in the field for just about thirty years.When I started we were installing 500s,2500s, trimlines and princess sets occassionally we would replace either a ringer or a dial a transmitter possibly a receiver in the field usually we would change out the complete set if it failed. The guys who trained me when I was new  were the true Telephone men they actually worked on the phones we now consider antiques.  Unfortunatelly even with  my vast experience.( lol) I can't figure this out. I purchased a 325  at a yard sale  about three years ago I recently tried to hook it up(I want to put it in my patio) I get no dial tone and initially it wouldnt ring. It had 4 wires connected from the line cord 2 were connected directly to the ringer via the fiber block and the other two were connected to L1  and L2 .I figure this phone was part of a key system with an on site ring generator. I rewired the ringer to K and L1 and now it rings,,, But no dial tone.... It looks like it is wired correctly just like a 302 .I can get a mementary dial tone by slowly turning the dial .Any help would be greatly appreciated  ???

poplar1

Do you have a monitor (like a butt set) when the phone is off hook? If so, this could be an open black lead (transmitter lead) in the handset cord or one of the contacts inside the handset bent down too far to reach the transmitter.

There should be continuity between Y and BK terminals on the dial except when the dial pulse contacts open during dialing (7 times for a dialed 7 for example). You could try shorting Y and BK or temporarily moving the hookswitch wire from Y to BK (leaving the other wires on BK).

Could also be something else. The wires look brittle.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

poplar1

If you go to telephonecollectors.org and click on library, then you can search for the following BSPs for wiring diagrams:

C55.251

C65.857

This is a website maintained by the Telephone Collectors International club.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.


paul-f

Welcome to the forum!

Even if the wiring checks out, it's worth the time to clean and inspect the switchhook and dial contacts to make sure they're operating properly.

The switchhook contacts are not protected, so should be given an especially close look.
Visit: paul-f.com         WE  500  Design_Line

.

rodnokn6

#5
Thanx guys for all of your responses  I really appreciate the help. I am going to check the continuity of my  brittle wiring. If you ask me the closer I look at this phone the more it looks like it has gotten wet at some time.   the clean parts is because I cleaned some of them... .I wanted to get it working ( or at least isolate the problem and track down the parts before I dissassemble it . Last nite before I called it a night I put an ohm meter across  the tip and ring of my base cord(with it unplugged from the phone jack) and I went off hook and the meter did nada. so maybe the switch hooks??? or an open wire somewhere... After dinner I'm going to try again

poplar1

#6
Should have continuity as follows:

from GN on the 101A induction coil>green hookswitch>double blue hookswitch (off-hook)>BB dial contact>W dial contact>W terminal block>White handset cord lead>W terminal in handset>white lead in handle>receiver contact>receiver

from R on the induction coil>red handset cord lead  (common rec. and trans.)>R terminal in handset>

both (1) transmitter contact>transmitter and
        (2) red lead in handle>other receiver contact

from L2Y on induction coil>yellow hookswitch lead>brown-yellow hookswitch lead (off-hook)>Y on dial>BK on dial>BK terminal block>black handset cord lead>BK terminal in handset>transmitter

Slate-red from L1 on induction  coil to R on dial

Primary winding of induction coil is L1 to R, secondary from R to GN, tertiary from GN to C.

Condenser: black lead  to BK terminal on dial and red lead to C on induction coil.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

rodnokn6

#7
I checked out the wiring again per poplar's reply and it does check out. so i just started looking around and if i short 1 and 3 on the switch hook block i get dial tone of course i cant break it. i removed the switch  and dissassembled it and cleaned it but still the same result. Im thinking its  probably the switch wheres a good place to start looking for one???

poplar1

#8
First try removing the wires connected to 1,2,3,4 then short the brown-yellow and yellow (currently on 3 and 4)  as well double-blue and green (currently on 1 and 2). This eliminates the hook switch altogether.

If you now have dial tone then the problem is probably the hook switch. If not, then there is another problem.

There should not be any continuity (with the wires disconnected) between  1 or 2 and the other contacts (3 and 4). Rather, both 1-2 make and 3-4 make when  off hook.

The jumper you placed changes the intended circuit.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

rodnokn6

thanx gman for the bsp link I especially like the pictures (lol) OK  Poplar I removed all 4 wires from the hook switch and shorted 1 to 2 and 3 to 4 /Still no dial tone I did however hear my daughter trying to make an outgoing call from an extension phone.I know this should make no difference but I did fail to mention that I have charter cable and the dial tone originates from the cable modem.I do have other old rotary phones hooked up they all can pulse out (no wrong numbers) and they all ring (These phones I just got lucky on I just hooked them up and they worked no problem) I did check continuity on the hook switch : terminals 1 and 2 have continuity ALL the time ( maybe someone didn't put it back together properlly after cleaning it ....Is there an exploded  view somewhere??? terminals 3 and 4 make and break by going off and on hook.... So with the hook switch wires shorted I am still able to draw momentary dial tone by slowly turning the dial ...Ill get dial tone then the volume steadily decreases then it is gone.  Is there a way to check the condensor? Thanx again guys for all the great advice and wiring links

poplar1

I asked earlier if you had a monitor circuit like a butt set. I meant could you hear another phone going off hook, dialing, or talking; and even hear ringing voltage yet unable to draw dial tone from your set.

if so then the condenser is working and the receiver is working. Turning the dial slightly shorts out L1 and L2 so that will give momentary dial tone then return to monitor. This usually means an open transmitter---either an open black lead in the handset cord or the transmitter contacts bent down too far.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

rodnokn6

#11
when I  got home yesterday after work and everything was down ( charter : cable , tv, and phone and internet) 1st outage since we cancelled fios and went with charter)Charter sez its a city wide outage. I was  unable to dissassemble the f1 handset its frozen the way I checked the handset was to replace it with another one and it did the same thing I tried this after reading someones response to check the handset wiring. I am not sure that the handset I tested with is good. When I get home from work 2 day I will remove the handset from my 302 and test it again.Anyways I really appreciate all the help from everyone I gotta run... btw iam able to trip the ringer by momentarily grounding the housing .Otherwise i can ring into the phone and with the hook switch wires shorted together it will just continue to ring .This sounds wierd to me since dial tone originates from a cable modem.....?????

poplar1

Try disconnecting the wires currently on the induction coil other than the incoming tip and ring. Then temporarily put
the white (receiver) handset lead on GN of the induction coil,
red (common) handset lead on R of induction coil,
black (transmitter) handset lead and black condenser lead both on YL2.
This bypasses the dial pulse and hookswitch.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

rodnokn6

#13
OH YEAH/ THAT WORKED... NICE CLEAR LOUD DIAL TONE!!! : ok now that the celebration is over ..If i'm not mistaken i just eliminated the : induction coil the handset and hand set wiring the hookswitch (i have to fix what i broke here)  the dial and the condensor... all that is left is the wiring. Which btw is what everyone thought was the problem in the first place .I'm going to recheck everything then I want to dissassemble the whole phone and give it a much needed cleaning I don't plan on painting or powder coating it I kinda like the original faded milatary grey.My wiring is in pretty bad shape physically. What are my options here? I want to install all new wiring . Does someone sell the correct wire in the correct colors by the foot ? And just in case I can't fix the hook switch are those available some where also.And is that switch specific to my phone or is it interchangeable with other phones ? Thanx again to all the great advice especially to Poplar (you would make a great tier two tech support tester for dsl) you have alot of patience for us "NEWBIES"

poplar1

This eliminates the dial and hookswitch and wiring but not the induction coil and condenser. So if you follow the continuity I mentioned earlier (moving the black handset and black condenser wires from YL2 to Y on the dial then if that works to BK on the dial), you may be able to find the problem.

As for the hookswitch, you can make the phone work by opening the connection between YL2 on the induction coil and Y on the dial. The other contacts (from GN on the induction coil to BB on the dial) open the receiver first so there is no pop in the receiver, but you can bypass these with a jumper from GN to BB. 
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.