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302 Question

Started by Fabius, October 13, 2014, 02:58:02 PM

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poplar1

#15
Dial Connections:               6A Dial:              6J Dial:             101A INDUCTION COIL:
                 
Brown-Yellow hookswitch       Y                         G
Black handset                      BK                        BL
Black capacitor                    BK                        BL
White handset                      W                         W
Brown-Blue hookswitch        BB                         W 
Red-Slate jumper wire          R                          BB R        L1 TERMINAL ON INDUCTION COIL

FOR 6J ONLY:
ADD NEW WIRE                                               BB            R TERMINAL ON INDUCTION COIL
>ALSO ADD SHORT JUMPER WIRE FROM BL ON 6J DIAL TO BK ON 6J DIAL

101A Induction Coil in base of set:
[/s]
Other end of red-slate wire                       
                           


"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

andre_janew

If I wire this the way popular1 suggests, that would leave the BK and R terminals on the dial empty.  If I run a jumper wire from the BL to the BK terminals on the dial, then I can use the R terminal on the dial as before.  Then I should run a new wire from the BB terminal on the dial to the R terminal on the induction coil.   If I sound totally confused, then maybe pictures instead of wiring diagrams would be more helpful.

unbeldi

Quote from: andre_janew on November 11, 2014, 07:02:04 PM
If I wire this the way popular1 suggests, that would leave the BK and R terminals on the dial empty.  If I run a jumper wire from the BL to the BK terminals on the dial, then I can use the R terminal on the dial as before.  Then I should run a new wire from the BB terminal on the dial to the R terminal on the induction coil.   If I sound totally confused, then maybe pictures instead of wiring diagrams would be more helpful.

No, you are not confused.   I think we have been confusing the issue perhaps.
What you just described makes perfect sense.

poplar1

#18
In another topic, you wrote:

By doing some rewiring, the 6J3 dial now works with my 302 phone.  I do, however, have to keep the handset away from my ear when dialing.  It is an inconvenience I can live with.

Do you hear a series of clicks, such as 7 clicks when you dial a 7, or just a pop when you first turn the dial and when it returns to rest?
If you are hearing a series of clicks while the dial is returning, then this can be corrected. Can you take a photo of the connections on the dial and base (induction coil, etc.)? Or at least tell us which wires are on each terminal of the dial, and on L1 and R on the 101A induction coil.

I now realize that unbeldi's method is necessary in order to shunt the transmitter as well as the receiver. I'll revise the table IN REPLY #15.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Lewes2

This is a somewhat related question:  Are a 6A and a 6D wired into a 302 the same way? 

Thanks,

Chuck

unbeldi

#20
Quote from: Lewes2 on November 13, 2014, 12:15:50 PM
This is a somewhat related question:  Are a 6A and a 6D wired into a 302 the same way? 

Thanks,

Chuck
Yes.   Two contact schematics of the No. 6 dials are shown in a previous post of this thread.  One is for the 6J, K, S, T, and U and the other one is for the 6A, D, G, H, M, N and R. The 6A and the 6D use identical contact arrangements.

The 6A and 6D are identical except for the finger wheel and the case finish.  6A is has the case side and rim painted black with a black metal finger wheel, and the 6D has a white painted case and a clear plastic finger wheel.

The 6J-3 (black) was intended for a 211PR-3 hangup-type telephone and the 6J-41 (gray) for PBX equipment.

There was another version of contact arrangements for 6E, F, and P dials.


andre_janew

In regards to Reply #18, I do get 7 clicks when I dial a 7.  The dial is wired as described in the revised  Reply #15 with the exception of the jumper wire between the two terminals on the dial.  I forgot to do that.  Would that make a difference?  Would that silence or at least quiet the clicks?

unbeldi

#22
Quote from: andre_janew on December 13, 2014, 06:46:44 PM
In regards to Reply #18, I do get 7 clicks when I dial a 7.  The dial is wired as described in the revised  Reply #15 with the exception of the jumper wire between the two terminals on the dial.  I forgot to do that.  Would that make a difference?  Would that silence or at least quiet the clicks?

That little jumper enables the shunt across the transmitter. It connects the R-BK switch to the circuit. Without it the dial pulses go through the transmitter. In early transmitters this was known to cause ''cohering'', a lumping of the carbon granules that reduced the efficiency of the transmitter over time, caused by the high frequency component when making and breaking the loop. Before the 500-series telephones with the 425 network, sets were not equipped in the factory with electronic filters to eliminate those frequencies.

Now the sadder news: Since you are still reporting the hearing of clicks while dialing, your telephone is still miswired in other ways. There is a chance, that you might hear one brief click when you start rotating the finger wheel, and just when it returns to its rest position after dialing, because the two off-normal switches in the 6J dial are not properly synchronized for this application. The BB-W switch should in theory close before BK-R, but the 6J has no precise way to assure this, as there is with the 6A dial, which has synchronized movable springs, so that BB-W opens first before RB-R closes—compare the switch diagrams earlier. 

Please follow Poplar1's wiring plan in post no. 16 and the circuit schematic in no. 15.

andre_janew

Did I mention that I forgot to put the jumper wire between the BL and BK terminals on the dial?  Well, I did forget.  I'll add that short jumper wire and let you know how it turns out.

poplar1

Can you verify the following?
1. New wire has been added from R on induction coil to BB on dial
2. Red handset lead goes from R inside handset to R on induction coil
3. White handset lead goes from W inside handset to W on dial
4. You can see the contact springs closing together on the dial: BB to W and BK to R

Some photos would also help.

Adding the jumper from BL to BK on the dial will protect the transmitter, but will not prevent the series of clicks you hear when dialing.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

andre_janew

#25
I have added the jumper wire between the BL and BK terminals on the dial.  There is a new wire running from the R terminal of the induction coil to the BB terminal on the dial.  I no longer get a series of clicks when dialing.  I take that as a sign that all the wires are in the right places and that the switches are working like they are supposed to.

Nevertheless, here are some pictures of my phone: