List of Known AE Sales Type Catalogs concerning Telephone Sets

[Jack Ryan]

The ad explains the material of the cradle as being phosphor bronze, not any other material that is often claimed as the material used at first.

That is the only place I have seen the cradle material (or any structural material) described a phosphor bronze. I wonder if it is an error - one of those that marketing departments commit.

Elsewhere the cradle (and perch) material is described as aluminium bronze and the hook switch springs as phosphor bronze.

Jack

[unbeldi]

The ad explains the material of the cradle as being phosphor bronze, not any other material that is often claimed as the material used at first.

That is the only place I have seen the cradle material (or any structural material) described a phosphor bronze. I wonder if it is an error - one of those that marketing departments commit.

Elsewhere the cradle (and perch) material is described as aluminium bronze and the hook switch springs as phosphor bronze.

Jack

Which other primary sources exist that mention the material used?

I believe I have seen broken off cradle ears, do you know what the color of the metal is on the break surface?

[Jack Ryan]

Bulletin 1015 of 1929 specifies the metal of the AE 21 desk stand perch as aluminium bronze and the switch hook springs as phosphor bronze. There is another that specifies the Monophone cradle material as aluminium bronze - when I find it I'll tell you what it is. I think it is Bulletin 1002.

I don't think I have ever seen a recently broken cradle so I don't know what colour the broken metal is. Do we have any metallurgists amongst us? Perhaps one can test a cradle.

Jack

[unbeldi]

Bulletin 1015 of 1929 specifies the metal of the AE 21 desk stand perch as aluminium bronze and the switch hook springs as phosphor bronze. There is another that specifies the Monophone cradle material as aluminium bronze - when I find it I'll tell you what it is. I think it is Bulletin 1002.

I don't think I have ever seen a recently broken cradle so I don't know what colour the broken metal is. Do we have any metallurgists amongst us? Perhaps one can test a cradle.

Jack

Thanks, I found it in 1015, but I don't have 1002.

Phosphor bronze should be grayish, while aluminum bronze is usually yellowish or golden.

[stub]

unbeldi,
           Gray AE cradle with the part number D-62022 . Tried to post pic but I can't pass security check .  stub , well the same pic went this time?

[Jack Ryan]

Disclaimer: I'm no metallurgist and I have not researched materials to any great extent.

Many zinc alloys are grey - not just phosphor bronze. I mention this because I think the material probably changed over time. In the early 1930s the Aluminium bronze (if that is what it was) was likely replaced by a zinc alloy. (I assume the reference to pot metal was a joke as not even WE would use that). (me releasing button ;-) ).

ATEA started using Zamac in the mid 1930s and the AE 43 was die-cast zinc - possibly the same material.

Jack

[unbeldi]

Disclaimer: I'm no metallurgist and I have not researched materials to any great extent.

Many zinc alloys are grey - not just phosphor bronze. I mention this because I think the material probably changed over time. In the early 1930s the Aluminium bronze (if that is what it was) was likely replaced by a zinc alloy. (I assume the reference to pot metal was a joke as not even WE would use that). (me releasing button ;-) ).

ATEA started using Zamac in the mid 1930s and the AE 43 was die-cast zinc - possibly the same material.

Jack

It's true that zinc alloys are gray, and this is perhaps why these are mistaken as zinc.  But nobody used zinc casting in the 20s for telephones, as far as I could find.

I think mid-30s is right for use of zinc, after the ZAMAK standards were developed.  Zinc smelting was not very developed in the 1920 yet with the quality needed.  Western Electric started casting the D-mountings in zinc ca 1935.  They had acquired their own smelting operation in 1931 on Staten Island in NYC, but still used Al-alloys for several years.  The only immediate effect of that purchase seems to be that they stopped outsourcing the D-type mountings and made their own. Until ca. 1932 the housings had a third-party logo.

[unbeldi]

unbeldi,
           Gray AE cradle with the part number D-62022 . Tried to post pic but I can't pass security check .  stub , well the same pic went this time?

Thanks, which type of mounting did this part number belong to?  Is this a No.1 or one of the wall phones?... I will try to look it up.
Looking at this metal surface, it looks different than a zinc alloy, IMHO.

[Jack Ryan]

But nobody used zinc casting in the 20s for telephones, as far as I could find.

No, I was suggesting that in the 1920s it was aluminium bronze and later it was a zinc alloy. I only say that because that is what I read in AE documentation; not because I know what the material was.

Jack

[Jack Ryan]

It seems the AE could not make up its mind. In bulletins, AE says that the cradle material is aluminium bronze; in AT (Sept-Dec 1925) it says it is phosphor bronze.

Choose this:
The cradle upon which the transmitter-receiver unit rests is of solid aluminum bronze rigidly secured by means of a lock nut, and keyed so that it cannot turn. The cradle and unit are so shaped that when the unit is dropped on the rest, it will always slide into proper position for actuating the switch.

or this:
The cradle upon which the Monophone rests is in unusual contrast to the fragile and delicate mechanisms formerly common to this style of instrument. It is of solid phosphor, bronze rigidly secured to the stand by means of a lock nut, and keyed so that it cannot turn.


Those statements were about 10 months apart - perhaps they used both. Whatever it was, it changed to a zinc alloy in the mid 1930s.

Jack

[AE_Collector]

I just completed my first ever scanning project combined with my first pdf document creation.

The Automatic Electric "Monophones and Substation Accessories" Catalog 4055-E from February 1949 should be available soon at the TCI Library as soon as I figure out how to get it to them. I sent an email to them this evening.

Terry

[unbeldi]

I still have the following catalogs on my list to find:

Catalogue 4014
Catalogue 4037
Catalogue 5002

I believe these are all from the 1930s, but I am not sure.

Are these available from anyone by any chance?

Is Circular 1712A the same as No. 1712.

[AE_Collector]

Back a few posts was a discussion on the metal used to make various cradles on Monophones in the 1930's. I have an AE2 desk set that has seen a lot of use and the handset has worn the paint off the edges of the cradle just beyond the edges of the plate that covers the hook switch contacts. It looks brass to me, a light yellow color. So Phosphor Bronze or Aluminum Bronze, this one isn't Zinc.

Terry

[stub]

Terry,
        Here's all I have on the AE Catalog - P-A-X , Bulletin 1001, 1926 -    stub


            left click on pic to enlarge

[AE_Collector]

I just found a copy of the AE1712 "Replacement Parts for AE Monophones" catalog that Jack Ryan posted in 2015. I added it to the list of catalogs on page 1 of this topic annd here is a link to the post with the PDF.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15155.msg157937#msg157937

Terry