News:

"The phone is a remarkably complex, simple device,
and very rarely ever needs repairs, once you fix them." - Dan/Panther

Main Menu

Western Electric 233G has no dial tone

Started by skkipp, May 25, 2013, 03:39:17 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

skkipp

I am here in VA with my brother in law who has a Western Electric 233G payphone that had a dial tone until we started playing around with wires in an effort to stop the phone from ringing and now we no longer have a dial tone.  I am thinking we shorted something out but I have to say that I really don't know anything about these phones.  Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated as I feel responsible for the phone not working now and would like to leave him with a working phone

poplar1

Skipp, what is the green wire from the wall connected to? What is the black wire from C (near the top of the phone) connected to? Can you tell us what color wires go to which terminals in the front part of the phone (the part with the dial)--or show a picture of these connections?

This phone was rewired by a company that bought these phones from the phone company then sold them to the public. I never thought to write down their "nonstandard" way of wiring them, but I will try to copy the wiring from the picture on a 233G here.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

skkipp

Ok, so just looked at the wiring and here is what I can see.

The green wire from the wall is connected to the terminal that is marked "SL".
The black wire at the top that is connected into the "C" terminal is spliced into a green wire that connects to one of the rectangular battery looking silver boxes that sit on top of the coin box area.
I have enclosed a pitutre shoring the wires on the terminal.
Also, this phone was operational without having to use coins and did have the dial tone up until we were trying to deactivate the ringer.
Thanks
Marty

poplar1

#3
Marty, here is a circuit using the 101A induction coil like the one in your phone. (The induction coil is the part marked 101A and that has L1, C, GN, R and L2Y terminals.)

Red line cord wire from wall to Y terminal on the hook switch. (The hook switch has contact springs that close when you pick up the handset to complete the circuit.)

Green line cord to L1 on the induction coil at the top of the phone.

Black handset wire and a condenser wire to BKX terminal  (not BBX)--this is the very bottom terminal on the backplate.

Other condenser wire to C on the induction coil

One white handset wire and red handset wire to R on the induction coil

Other white handset wire to GN on the hook switch.

[EDIT: ADD A WIRE FROM GN ON THE INDUCTION COIL TO W ON THE HOOK SWITCH.]

ADD a short wire between BB and BBX (not BKX) on the hook switch.
[EDIT: no other wires on BB and BBX.]

No wire connected to R on the hook switch or SL on the hook switch.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

skkipp

Thanks again for your reply,  I will look at your suggestion of wiring tomorrow when I get some time to sit at the phone.  Do I assume that if I can wire it they way you suggested that it should work? 

Also, this may be a stupid question what part of the phone is the condenser?

And finally for tonight since we had a dial tone originally is it possible that we just shorted something out when we were disconnecting wires trying to stop the ringer or is it just coincidental that the dial tone went away and I will need to rewire the phone in a different way then it was done.

Thanks


poplar1

The condensers are "the rectangular battery looking silver boxes that sit on top of the coin box area."

If you wire it the way I suggested, it should work. I don't know about the wiring the way it was before, but I have run into phones sold by this company that were wired incorrectly.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

skkipp

I have moved the wires around the way you suggested and I am happy to say that it is now working so THANK you so much for your assistance.  I do have a couple of other questions with the wiring which are as follows:

There is also a wire connecting BBX on the handset switch to L1 on the coil
and connecting BB on the handset switch to GN on the coil  - are both of those ok to keep?

Then both of the wires from the condensers are hooked to Y on the handset switch so I assume that is ok.

And do I assume I disconnect the other condenser that is not connected to the BKX terminal to shut the ringer off?

Thanks again!!

poplar1

#7
I forgot to include the wire on GN terminal on the induction coil. The wire goes  from GN to W (rather than GN to BB).

There should be only one wire on L1--the green incoming wire. There should be a short wire connecting BB and BBX, but no other wires there. The condenser that you are keeping should be connected to C and BKX.

I would write down the connections as you have them now just for reference, but then follow the wiring suggested. There should not be a loud pop in the receiver when you hang up or clicks in the receiver when you are dialing.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

skkipp

Thanks again for all your help. 

I have disconnected the other condenser which was hooked to the Y terminal on the hang up switch and the small round piece next to the contacts for the hang up switch and no ringer like I wanted.  I also removed the yellow wire that connected L1 to bbx

The phone has a dial tone, makes and receives calls just fine with no loud pop. However, I can hear clicks in the receiver when I am dialing so is there anything I should do about that?

poplar1

First, temporarily disconnect the white dial wire from the W terminal at the bottom of the upper housing. After putting the phone back together, you should no longer hear dial tone, but if you call the pay phone from your cell phone, you should be able to transmit from the pay phone to the cell phone. If you still have dial tone with the white wire removed, then something is probably wired wrong.

The only thing we have not checked is the dial. When it is working properly, the bottom two contact springs (BB and W) open up while the dial is wound up and while it is releasing. This opens the receiver circuit so that you don't hear the clicks when the top two contact springs (Y and BK) are pulsing out the number dialed.

The dial cord should connect to the same terminal name on both ends: they are correct on the terminal block in your picture, but you may want to look at the dial itself.

To get to the dial, first turn the 2 spring-loaded bayonets counter-clockwise. These have ridges on the side to grab them with.  Be careful not to let the springs jump too far if you don't want to search for them afterward. Then there is also one large screw holding the coin track in. Once the coin track is removed, there will be 3 screws holding the dial in.

Verify that the right color wires are on the right terminals on the dial:

White wire from W on dial to W on terminal block
Yellow wire from Y on dial to  Y on terminal block
Blue or green wire from BB on dial to BB on terminal block
Red wire from R on dial to R
Black wire from BK on dial to BK.

Can you see the top two contact springs opening and closing 7 times if you dial 7? And can you see the bottom two contact springs opening and staying open while the dial is operated?
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Phonesrfun

#10
I would like to chime in here, if I may.  Poplar1 has given the exactly correct way of connecting a 233G using the 101A coil and accompanying condenser.

Let's review it once more just to be sure all is connected correctly.  Be sure to know there is a difference between a terminal labeled BKX and BBX!

OK, here goes.

First, there should be no other connections besides these.  If you had a ringer and a second capacitor (condenser), make sure they are disconnected or even outright removed.

  • Green line cord wire to "L1" on the 101A induction coil
  • Red Line cord wire goes to terminal "Y" on the hook switch
  • If your line cord wire has a yellow and a black wire, these two are not used and should be taped individually so as to not interfere with other wires
  • One side of the capacitor (also called a condenser) to "C" on the 101A induction coil
  • The other side of the capacitor goes to the transfer contact labeled "BKX" which is the lowest transfer contact
  • A jumper wire is wired between "GN" on the 101A induction coil and terminal "W" on the hook switch
  • Another jumper is made between terminals "BB" and "BBX" on the hooks witch

The four wires of the handset are wired as follows:

  • White to "GN" on the hook switch
  • Other white and the red both together go to terminal "R" on the 101A induction coil
  • black goes to the transfer contact "BKX" with the capacitor wire mentioned above.

Please look over these carefully.  Because there are terminals labeled "R" and "GN" both on the hook switch and on the coil, it is important to follow the connections carefully to make sure you are connecting things to the correct places.

If all this still does not work, please take a good focused photo of the insides with your revised wiring so we can take a look at it.

-Bill
-Bill G

skkipp

David and Bill,

Sorry for the delay in responding to both of you as I have been out injured and away from the computer but all is well.

I have followed the instructions for wiring and the phone no longer has a ringer, has a dial tone and sends and receives calls.  There is the slight clicking noise when dialing but I remember the old rotary phones I used to use had something similar so I am ok with it especially since the phone works.

I would like to thank you both for all of your time and help with the phone to get it back up and running and I know I could not have done it without you.

Marty