Here I go causing trouble again.

[HobieSport]

D/P
Sorry. I'll send you a new keyboard by priority mail via flying monkey.  Just don't ask me where the monkeys fly out from.
-Matt

[AET]

A fellow collector sent me the attached photo.  He said it was from a Western Electric magazine dated 1958.  The quality isn't the greatest but it gives the idea of how many of these phones were made.  You'd think they'd be everywhere.  It is believed it was taken around 1957 - 1958.

I'm reminded of a song, "Who knew heaven was a place on earth?"

[rp2813]

I checked my beige phone after seeing the list of color codes.  Sure enough, it had the 60 suffix.  However, the phone was originally manufactured in 1959, I'm guessing as a plain black one.  All the beige parts (including a long line cord with 4-prong jack) are dated 1963 but network and ringer are still 1959.  This is the beige phone that has the black metal fingerwheel.  It cleaned up nicely so I think I'm going to buy it the correct clear fingerwheel.  Beige isn't really a color I care for but this phone worked and rang as soon as I plugged it in (with a 4prong-to-modular adapter I found) so I want to do right by it.  It might be a good phone to trade for something else someday.

Ralph

[Dennis Markham]

Ralph, have you previously posted a picture of this beige phone with the black metal finger wheel?  You are going to need some additional parts to put a plastic wheel on the phone.  You will need an adapter spider and a washer.  You may also have an issue with the finger stop as the current one you have is more parallel with the wheel.  If you put a hard center finger wheel on the phone the finger stop will rub.  They actually produced a finger stop that is more on a 45 degree angle to prevent the stop from rubbing.  When the phone company began to convert/refurbish phones from the metal to Lucite finger wheels they also had to modify the finger stops.  Those phones that still have a 7C or 7D dial but have had the adapters put on for plastic wheels have a finger stop that is marked with an X on the stop where it attaches to the dial.  If you hold one of those up next to an older stop you will see the difference.  I have modified an older one simply by bending it up a bit to clear the stop.  If you buy an open faced finger wheel you won't have this problem but will still need the adapter piece.  I have several of those clips and I'll be glad to send you what you need.  I'll post a couple of photos here to show you what I'm talking about.  A picture is worth a thousand words....

[Dennis Markham]

Ralph, maybe you already knew about this clip but in case you didn't, or someone else can benefit from it, I took some photos showing a standard metal finger wheel mounting followed by the adapter and then the clear finger wheel with the clearance issue I mentioned.  You will see in the accompanying photos that if the finger stop is seated as normal underneath, the stop will touch the wheel and hinder its movement.  You can bend the finger stop up a bit to allow for clearance, or just loosen the mounting screw, move the finger stop up a bit and tighten it down.  Sometimes it's tricky as the stop wants to re-seat itself where it's designed to seat.  When these were refurbished by the phone company they used the stops that were longer and with a bend--marked with an "X" as I mentioned in the previous post.  But this will work.  I'll send you a PM about the clip.  I have some extras and I'll send you one if you need it.

I used a white phone just because it was the first one I grabbed off the shelf that had the conversion kit on it.  It's from my pile of "parts" phones.

Again, the proper finger stop would be one that was made a bit longer but the curved part has a bend upward.  The correct one will seat all the way down on the retaining screw and will rest against the finger stop support, seen under the finger stop.  Mounted the way this one is one COULD push hard enough to cause the stop to move out of position.  But in a pinch this one will work.

[Dan/Panther]

Dennis;
In the third photo, the finger stop is not seated all the way. Can't you seat it, and just slightly bend the stop up so it clears. That is what I thought you were suppose to do ?
D/P

[Dennis Markham]

Yes.  I think I mentioned that in my text about the option.  Either bend it up or just raise it.  I found that if I put the stop on the bench with the pointed end and the base touching then tap the angle, or bended spot with the hammer it will widen the stop and result in positive results.  All you need is enough room to clear the plastic finger wheel.

[Dan/Panther]

Dennis;
So they actually had different length stops for the different wheel setup ?
D/P

[Dennis Markham]

Dan, I have run into a few of them on the converted sets.  I mean sets that at one time had either a flat, metal finger wheel or one that had the open face finger wheel.  Either of those have a low enough profile to clear under the stop.  Once the the more rounded, one-piece finger wheel came in yes, there was a longer version, marked on the hidden portion with a large "X".  It was a tad bit longer and the curved stop part was raised to clear the curvature of the finger wheel.

I'll see if I can find one to show a photo.

[rp2813]

Dennis, thanks for posting the pictures.  I do need the spider retainer clip because it's missing from my phone.  Maybe that's how the black metal dial ended up on it.  I'll check the finger stop and see if there's the "X" on it that you mentioned.  So it sounds like any lucite wheel will fit on this phone once the retainer is installed, right? 

I know you are busy Dennis so I'll PM you about this if I don't hear from you.

Ralph

[Dennis Markham]

Speaking of the finger stops.  Here are a couple of photos of 3 different stops. 

In the first photo you see two stops, the one on the left has the "X" as I mentioned (actually looks more like a plus sign) but I have seen some with the mark sideways.  The stop to the right of it is a standard stop you'd find on a 7C or 7D dial with a metal or open center finger wheel.

The second photo shows those two stops on their sides.  As you can see the stop to the left (that has the X) is bent just a bit higher to clear the rounded shape of the hard center plastic finger wheel.

The third photo shows a stop that has a different shape at the base.  These stops are found on later dials, like the #8.  It doesn't fit good on a phone with a #7 dial.  It is the precursor to the stop that is enclosed at the bottom (a square opening) used on the #9 dials where a plastic tab snaps into the square opening.  (Shown in the last photo).

[McHeath]

I'd noticed that the stops were a bit different on 500's but never to this extent.  I have one that is bent downwards, seems that someone gave it a good slam at some point.  Found a phone over the weekend that the receiver end had obviously been forcefully impacted against the top of the dial, clearly a call that went poorly and ended even worse!

[Dennis Markham]

Probably a call from the person's financial adviser.