Dial tone

T65MC80 · July 19, 2009, 05:04:02 PM

I recently picked up a Western Electric 50-AL telephone with a 534A subset and I am in the process of restoring it, but I am unable to get a dial tone. I have the diagram on the inside cover of the subset and re-checked the wiring but no sound comes out of the earpiece. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

bingster · July 19, 2009, 05:11:25 PM

Just out of curiosity, when you unscrew the receiver cap, does the metal disc diaphragm fall off or does it stick to the receiver element?

T65MC80 · July 19, 2009, 11:25:14 PM

It sticks to the receiver, yes.

Jester · July 20, 2009, 12:36:07 AM

If it has a dial, make sure all contacts that are touching when the dial is at rest are fully closed (touching) and completely clean. This applies to the switch contacts also. I've found that a corner of brown paper bag works well for cleaning/ burnishing contact points.

bingster · July 20, 2009, 01:03:10 AM

I've looked at the diagram I have for the 534 subset, and the diagram relating to the phone is fairly inadequate. Try checking the diagram on the TCI website, and see if it matches your wiring. Here's the diagram:

http://telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/2118-desk-stands-50al-tl

Additionally, make sure the cords on the rack inside the shaft are connected securely, without having any metal part of one lug touching any other screw or lug. Those connections are close together, and it's very easy for one connector to short against another one.

Also note that some lugs mount on the front of the rack and that others mount on the back of the rack. Here's a diagram for the rack cording. Sorry for the quality, but the scanner's on the fritz.

T65MC80 · July 20, 2009, 10:08:26 PM

I looked at the diagram attached to the hyperlink and I noticed the front BB terminal and the red terminal from the subset end in arrowheads rather than another terminal. Does this signify that these two cords are those that run to the wall jack? Also, what would be a good lubricant for the gears in the dial mechanism?

bingster · July 20, 2009, 10:16:01 PM

The two arrows toward the bottom of that diagram indicate that those two wires terminate at the hookswitch on the rack. The incoming line connects to the subset only, with one wire going to L1 and the other to L2 or L2Y (it may be marked either way).

Incidentally, the two connections you mentioned aren't in the subset, they're inside the phone. To help differentiate between the two, I've taken the diagram that I linked to, removed the extraneous information, and color-coded it to indicate what's the subset and what's the phone. The whole blue section of the diagram is the subset and it's connections, the pink section is the phone and it's connections. The white section in between the two shows the mounting cord that connects the phone to the subset.

Are you able to post photos of the insides of the phone and the subset? It could very well be that your phone is incomplete, and we just don't know it. For example, there should be three separate cords on your phone (if it has a dial): Two of the cords (the receiver cord and the mounting cord) come out the back of the phone, and the third cord stays inside the phone and connects the dial to the rack.

T65MC80 · July 21, 2009, 12:33:13 AM

So it all seems properly wired according to the diagrams, but still no luck. I forgot to mention that the wiring is original. Should I purchase some new wiring or are there other things I can try before buying the wires?

Secondly, is there any lubrication for the rotary gears I can use without making the whole thing a dust magnet?

bingster · July 21, 2009, 02:15:33 AM

It's possible that there's a problem in the condition of the wires, but generally speaking, it's not very likely. I'm still leaning toward a wiring problem, given the fact that the colors on these old wires all tend to fade to different shades of brown, making it difficult to know what goes where. It may be easier to replace the cords just to be able to get the color differentiation. I don't know of a source for a proper "dial cord" that connects the dial to the rack, though. We'll get it working, but it may take somebody with more experience with these than I have.

As for the oil for the dial, 3-in-1 oil is fine, but they'll generally need cleaning before oiling. If you check the "Classified" section of the forum, you'll find a couple members who offer a clean/lube service for dials, and they do excellent work for not much money.

Phonesrfun · July 21, 2009, 02:41:15 AM

My two cents would be to have you post some pictures. I think Bingster already mentioned this. Sometimes they say a thousand words.

Second, have you listened on another phone in the house when you go off hook on the candlestick? Does it make a difference? If it does, can you hear yourself on the other phone when you talk into the candlestic or tap on its mouthpiece with a pencil? A couple basic steps to start out with. I would definitely go through some of these basic steps before replacing cords or doing anything to the dial. Generally, if the cords look intact, they probbly are.

-Bill

T65MC80 · July 21, 2009, 06:02:33 PM

Here are some pics of the phone wires and the connections. They look fine to me though the cloth covering has rotted away but there are some remaining patches on them to tell them apart. Still no luck with the dial tone. I tried Phonesrfun's suggestion but nothing seemed to register on another, functioning phone. I double-checked the wall jack with another phone to ensure that it was working and it is fine. The electricity seems to be flowing through the phone because as I was wiring it sometimes the clapper would hit the bells. It's a real head-scratcher for me.

T65MC80 · July 21, 2009, 06:18:42 PM

News flash: I tried Phonesrfun's suggestion again after switching up the mounting cord wires and I noticed that when I kept the earpiece off the hook, my other working phone recognized that a phone in the house was off the hook, so it seems that it is connected to the house somehow.

Also, whenever I toggle the hook switch on and off I hear a click on the other phone and the clapper touches the bells slightly. However, when I speak into the working phone, I still receive no voice on the WE earpiece.

Lastly, there is a faint hum in the earpiece as if it is off the hook. Hope that all these things are a good sign.

bwanna · July 21, 2009, 08:29:39 PM

i'll start by saying, i do not know a thing about candlestick phones, so this suggestion may be waaaay out in left field. possibly polarity to your jack is reversed, try flipping the wires there.

McHeath · July 21, 2009, 09:36:40 PM

I'll add that the wires look pretty old and some are in poor condition. I've had wires that looked okay turn out to be bad, corrosion inside the wire acting like a break, perhaps using an Ohm meter and testing each wires continuity would be useful.

Phonesrfun · July 21, 2009, 09:40:48 PM

The wires between the phone and the subset look to be the most suspicious. Reversing the line cord won't help on a candlestick because they are not polarity sensitive, although that suggestion would normally make sense. What kind of cord are you using between the subset and the phone?? Can you take a picture that is not quite so close-up so we can see the cord?

-Bill

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Dial tone