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Building an RC network for my "D1", "202," HELP :)

Started by antiqueguy, January 14, 2012, 02:56:04 PM

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antiqueguy

I recently purchased a "D1", "202," off of ebay.  It was brought to my attention that these phones require a ringer box or an RC network to function properly and to not do damage to the phone magnets.  I really do NOT want a ringer connected to this phone.  Also I would rather not cannibalize one of my 500's to get a network.  I would ideally like to construct of find a network to fit inside the base of this 202.

I have searched the site for plans but I am having trouble finding just what I need. It's like a information overload. I would really like this put into Dummy form for me.  I would really appreciate any time spend helping me with this issue.  Not really sure were else to turn. Anyone would would like to help there is more information and a few pictures inside and out of this phone at this topic. http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=6098.0

Oh I'm also looking for a new leather base and dial card for this phone. :)

TelePlay

#1
I bought a 202 D1 with an F1 handset that came with what you may be looking for inside the base.

The phone had two (2) 1.1uF capacitors hooked up in parallel from the 6A3 dial post BB to hook switch post W. It also had two (2) 120 ohm resistors hooked up in series from the dial R post to the hook switch W post.

Using one 2.2uF capacitor and one 240 ohm resistor would do the same thing and take less space.

The seller used it without a ringer. The seller did offer an external ringer if I wanted one, but did not. I removed this cheater network and attached a 302 base to it as a subset.

Someone else may have a better way to do this. It was the seller's design.

dsk

Kellogg made some simple, but well working solutions:
http://is.gd/1vC0dq (page 21)
Today it could be much smaller. The coil could be a miniature relay, with resistance 20-100 ohms.
The capacitor should be 1-3 microfarad, 50V or more non polarized.
If yo cant get a coil, a resistor 200-300 ohms. The coil should be a better solution.

dsk

Phonesrfun

ANtiqueguy:

I have just the thing for you, but I am out and about, so I can't do a search, and I don't have the file on my iPad.  I will be able to direct you to it later this evening, but I think I posted it here last year and called it a cheater subset.  For some reason, when I do a search on that, I didn't see anything, so I wonder if the board search function has a time-frame or something.

Any way I will post it again a little later today.

-Bill G

Phonesrfun

ok, I'm back and here is a link to the discussion about the cheater subset:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2849.msg39770#msg39770

Just build the simple resistor and capacitor in a terminal block and connect the phone to the screw terminals and connect the RJ-11 connector to your modular jack via a modular cord.

As an alternative, you can build it right inside the phone with a little re-wiring.  If you plan on ever getting a real subset, I would advise against building it inside the phone and to instead put it in the connecting block.

-Bill G

AE_Collector

Quote from: Phonesrfun on January 14, 2012, 06:07:41 PM
For some reason, when I do a search on that, I didn't see anything, so I wonder if the board search function has a time-frame or something.

I always find it difficult to find what I know is on the forum "somewhere" when using the search function. This is part of the reason that I like to see good meaningful titles used on each discussion.

I have noticed that when you are in one of the boards, say for example "The Find of the Month" board and you decide to use the search function, your search will ONLY be within the "Find of the Month" threads. You need to be higher up at the "Rotary Phones" or "Rotary Phones Forum' level when you do a search if you want it to search the entire forum.

Terry

dsk

Quote from: d_s_k on January 14, 2012, 04:44:28 PM
Kellogg made some simple, but well working solutions:
http://is.gd/1vC0dq (page 21)
Today it could be much smaller. The coil could be a miniature relay, with resistance 20-100 ohms.
The capacitor should be 1-3 microfarad, 50V or more non polarized.
If yo cant get a coil, a resistor 200-300 ohms. The coil should be a better solution.

dsk

The search function may be frustrating, and I guess its better to just learn from the hint: Go to the level you want to search within, or to to the top and search trough everything.

Regarding this thread, the use of different solutions, resistors, coils or transformers may need an explanation for someone, but may obvious to others.

Resistors are used in modern telephones, they are lo cost, small and easy available. Resistors has a great loss, and this is compensated in modern telephones by using transistorized amplifiers etc. Transformers. (coils with more than one set of windings should be build specially for the components used to match impedance's etc, but this may often be neglected because the loss her is usually marginal, ("universal") mini-networks are available, and will usually be great solution.  Just plug and play.

The old Kellogg solution with a single coil is something between. Relatively small, just a minor loss, and economical.
The coil lets the DC pass easy. (= measured resistance) but it has an higher impedance (Higher resistance for alternating currents like voice signals) this lets the power for the transmitter pass through, but stops the voice signal, and forces the voice signal to choose another way, the receiver.

How should the coil be?  DC Resistance should be as lo as possible, and the AC resistance as high as possible.
What is acceptable? Dc resistance between 20 and 150 ohms may be OK, Using a resistor we want more to stop the sound, but get weaker signals from the transmitter at the same time. The more turns on the coil the better, and the core should ideally be a closed loop, made of sheets of iron insulated by a thin layer of e.g. paint.

A relay made for AC operation is almost a closed loop, and the core is OK. A DC relay may often do the job with no problems. The lo volts winding of a little adapter for some old radio etc may also do the job, but it is bigger, just rip of all other components, and leave the other windings open.  Sometimes you may even use it as a transformer with the 110V side in series with the receiver, and the low volt side in series with the transmitter. Its just depending on how lucky you are with what you find.

dsk

dpaynter1066

I'm not sure why you would want to do a homebrew network when all manner of telephone networks are available for 10 to 15 dollars?  It works sure,  but why not just use a 302 coil and a capacitor for that. 

Is there some advantage to it other than the scrounging in the junkbox fix it challenge thing?  Or is this like the guy who set out to build a toaster from scratch, mining his own ore and smelting it in the microwave to eventually make some toast: 
http://www.thomasthwaites.com/thomas/toaster/page2.htm

If that's it, then cool, I'm all for that.

I think there is even a file in the TCI library or other showing how to hide an AE mini network in the base of a 202.

dpaynter1066

#8
ps;  

Phonecoinc.com  sells AE mini networks for $10

oldphoneworks.com has 101a networks for $10


Newark electronics or Mouser or Jameco have inexpensive 2 uf capacitors to use with the 101A network, the AE mini is complete  and ready to use as is.

any sort of small empty box can be used a a subset case, or make a wooden box.  your outlay is maybe less than 20 dollars if you have the right number of wires in the cord on your phone already.  both vendors sell cord by the foot or premade subset cords.

TCI  wiring library
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=24

101a coil w 2uf capacitor in: B1 and D1 Handset Mountings

ae mini network:   Method of mounting N-205 Mini Network inside of a B1/102 set   should work internally for 202, dunno, otherwise, use an external box for the network.

dsk

#9
 ;D For me, its fun to invent the wheel again, not because Its not good enough as it is, but to learn why its the best, just as it is.  It may be the basic of some MacGyverism, the possibility to get things working. Maybe later, and if needed put in a more professional unit.

Regarding the mini-network, and other networks made with varistors, they need another more complex diagram, but seems to be high quality. The network from a 302 will be easy to use, and may be wired with anti-sidetone.

The cost has not been an issue in this thread, but it looks like postage may be a quite big part of the total.

dsk

dpaynter1066

Too many people these days are looking for ready to plug in and go stuff I  suppose.

I ground and polished my telescope mirror and built a mount out of scraps of wood.  I still remember the intense thrill of looking through it the very first time and seeing Saturns rings and moons. such pride in my creation.  Now the trend is for "Armchair" astronomy, sitting idly by and looking at photos someone else has taken.

Folks like that dont know what they are missing.

I think I tend to be more inclined to tweaking for optimum effect rather than working just fine,  and so suggested using a network.   It is possible to wind your own you know...

twocvbloke

On the theme of "building your own", I'm the same, I'd rather try and make my own than just buy off-the-shelf, one project I'm planning on is a shop-vac style vacuum cleaner made form a cut-down storage barrel, just cos I can, and it gives the feeling of satisfaction that you made it yourself, and saved a lot of money in the process too... ;D

deedubya3800

This is the post I made on how I installed an AE n205 transmission board inside my D1: Click here.

I'm still very satisfied with the results all these months later, and I've used it on nearly a daily basis!

antiqueguy

Thanks for the overwhelming support and help.  I will read through this stuff. I have just managed to read this since I have the weekend off. Sorry it took so long.

TelePlay

Quote from: TelePlay on January 14, 2012, 03:54:04 PM
I bought a 202 D1 with two (2) 1.1uF capacitors hooked up in parallel from the 6A3 dial post BB to hook switch post W. It also had two (2) 120 ohm resistors hooked up in series from the dial R post to the hook switch W post.

As a follow up to the deskset I bought with a subset eliminator circuit within it, I saw this 202 D1 that just sold on eBay with a more nicely done eliminator circuit. They seem to have covered the resistor leads with plastic tubing and spades but unfortunately covered up the capacitor with electrical tape. Maybe the person who bought the desk set will post pictures.