Request Assistance Learning About WE Finger Stops interchangeability

[rfkimba]

Dear Telephonists,
I was trying to learn more about valuation and rarety on WE candelstick dial phones as I am collecting them and want to leverage my learning . I've seen references saying that a  dial on a 50 Al is more valuable with an AE finger stop than a XX finger stop. Also I've seen Sargeguy    tutorials about different dial plates being more common or less.
How does one know if someone replaced a common finger stop on the 50Al phone I just bought with party line dial with a reproduction AE finger stop to make it look more valuable?
How do I know if someone replaced a common dial with an uncommon dial plate to  make it look more valuable.
Are there any tutorials or links I can be pointed to that address these subjects?
Thanks,
Bob Farber

[poplar1]

Repro: http://www.oldphoneworks.com/reproduction-2ab-fingerstop.html  ($24.95 @ oldphoneworks)

Original: http://www.oldphoneworks.com/2aa-fingerstop-original.html ($79.95 @ oldphoneworks)

The first thing to look at is the number plate: Does it have a notch? If not, then more than likely, the type number plate should be  indicated by the second letter on the finger stop. The first letter indicates what type phone the dial is used on: The 2A-type dial was used on desk stands (50-AL, 51-AL, etc.) , coin collectors (50-G etc.)  and wall sets (1553-A). The 2H-type dial was used on hand telephone sets (B1B, 201B/C/D).

Notchless plate:                                Finger stop:

132-A (all numbers)                     2 AA     or 2 HA         
132-B (numbers and letters)         2 AB         2 HB                                                                                                               
132-E (numbers + J, M, R,W)        2 AE         2 HE        

The X Sargeguy is referring to marks out the second letter to indicate a change in the type plate. Usually, the new letter is added to the right of the X. For example, if the dial was originally a 2 AA (all numbers) and they were changing from an all numbers (132-A) to a metropolitan number plate (132-B, 149-B, 150-B?), it would now be marked 2 AXB. Sometimes, they merely Xed out the second letter: 2 AA would be 2 AX.

If the number plate was replaced in the field or by someone else, the finger stop might not match the number plate: You might find a 150-B number plate (numbers and letters) on a 2 AA dial (all numbers). It's also possible that phones reissued from the WE repair shops in later years were not always remarked.

The most common original dial is a 2 AB dial. This may be because metropolitan areas were the first areas to get dial phones. Next is the 2 AA, which would have been used in exchanges where all phone numbers were figures only, often 4 digits (3766) or 5 (2-3766). The least common is the 2 AE. These were used only in all-number central offices where you could dial someone in a manual central office. The J, M, R, or W after the phone number indicated which party would be rung. Once central offices cut to dial service, party line letters were eliminated and each party got a unique number. But until that time, 2 AE dials were needed to call manual offices.

Large exchanges (2 Letters 4 Numbers or 2L 5N)  that had a mix of automatic (dial) and manual (non-dial) central offices had 2AB dials. Since they had 25 letters, you could dial both the central office name (LA mar 4463) and a party line code if needed (DE arborn 0864-W).

Smaller exchanges (5 numbers for example) with a mix of dial and manual offices could use either 2 AB or 2 AE dials. For example, the number card on a 2 AE dial might say 2-3766 as only numbers were needed for calling other lines in your central office. But a nearby area (local call) with non-dial phones might have a number such as 3-2288-J, so you would need at least J, M, R, and W on your dial to reach them.

[tallguy58]

What were the holes plugged with when converted from a #2 to a #4?

Are the plugs easily removable?

[poplar1]

A friend told me WE used "potter's dam." "tinker's dam." (As in "I don't give a potter's tinker's dam.") That refers to the "potters" "tinkers" that used to go door to door during the Great Depression offering to repair any pots and pans that had holes in them. I don't know whether it's the same material.

Edit: term corrected after Dennis's post

Au Québec: Patenteur? Bretteur?

[Sargeguy]

How does one know if someone replaced a common finger stop on the 50Al phone I just bought with party line dial with a reproduction AE finger stop to make it look more valuable?

I have never seen a reproduction 2AE fingerstop.  I imagine it would look new.

How do I know if someone replaced a common dial with an uncommon dial plate to  make it look more valuable.

The only difference between a less valuable 2AB dial and a 2AE dial is the plate and the fingerstop.  There is no difference between the other parts of the dial.  Putting an uncommon dial on a phone makes that phone more valuable, and putting more valuable fial plate and fingerstop makes the dial more valuable.

[dencins]

A friend told me WE used "potter's dam." (As in "I don't give a potter's dam.") That refers to the "potters" that used to go door to door during the Great Depression offering to repair any pots and pans that had holes in them. I don't know whether it's the same material.

I tried Google for "potter's dam" and could not find anything useful.  I always thought the saying was "I don't give a tinker's darn".  A tinker was a tin smith who traveled around fixing household utensils.  I think "tinkering" (when you try to fix something) came from this. 

The material used to plug the hole may have been a lead alloy.  Lead has a low melting point so it would work without damaging the case.  Lead alloys were commonly referred to as "pot metal" which may be what your friend was thinking.  "Pot metal" is any inexpensive, low melting point alloy.

Dennis Hallworth

[poplar1]

Dennis, I think you're right--tinker's dam it is. My friend told me that about 20 years ago and I forgot the right word.

[poplar1]

I have never seen a reproduction 2AE fingerstop.  I imagine it would look new.

The only repro fingerstop in OPW catalog is a 2AB. Paul Vavarchak used to sell unmarked ones.

[poplar1]

Unmarked fingerstops were used on the earliest 2A dials. These have "2A" embossed on the back of the dial, to the left of the governor. There are no patent dates anywhere on this dial; so without checking the back, it's easy to think it's a late 2-type dial, where the patent dates were moved to the back.

Unmarked fingerstops were also used on D-75978 dials. These are like 2AA dials except that the word "operator" is omitted on the number plate.