Changes to the 500 over 30 years

[Nilsog]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I've been wanting to talk about it for a while.

My favorite 500s are from the 50s. Bakelite handsets, soft plastic, heavy duty dials and serious cordage. But the more I come across 500s the more I realize the vast transformation they undertook in their journey from 1949 to 1984 under the Bell System.

The newer they get, it seems the poorer the quality gets. I can understand the changes in plastic materials, ABS is tougher and probably cheaper. The feet from suede to rubber, then even less rubber. The dials are the worst, in my opinion though. A number 7 dial is a beautiful thing to me, and to compare one to a number 9 dial is no contest.

For some reason I despise modular phones. Hardwired just looks nicer to me.

So, although the functionality remained the same, the parts became cheaper and cheaper. It seems to me that somewhere the bottom line overtook quality. I believe I read somewhere that at the end of Bell, Western Electric was losing a lot of money, I can only assume that this is the reason behind these changes.

So am I the only one who walks by later 500s because of their cheaper components? I have a '51, '54 and '55 500, and they are by far my favorites of my 500s.

I'm really interested to hear from the rest of you guys.

[McHeath]

I collect hardwired and modular 500s, but I prefer hardwired.  I really like the early 500s the best, my 12/1950 has been my desk phone for several months now as I've yet to rotate it out and put another model on.  (usually I change desk phones every few weeks)

That said I really enjoy my few newer 500s.  I have one of WE final models, a 1984 one, and also one from the early 90's and then my newest a Cortelco from 2003.  Yes they are oodles cheaper in every way, but they are still make well, still durable, and all still work just fine.  The newer ones have a certain appeal as well.

But I do like older better. 

There are some good internet lists and sites that detail all the changes over the years.  Paul F's is a great place to start.

http://www.paul-f.com/

[dsk]

I'm far away from
you, living in Norway limits the experience of American telphones.
from an expert, but I believe the 500 when it came with varistors was the best circuit ever made. I prefere hardwired, and I prefere metal dial. I actually don't understand whats great with soft plastic, but find the bakelit handset better to use than the later ones, but I cant tell why.

When it comes to design, I will put the 302 on the top of the list (Metal housing referred) followed by SC1243, But the Redbar doesent score high here. They made a nice looking handset, but the quality are far from good enough. After this i would go for the 2500. I have to admit the 2500 was a symbol of the modern USA when I grew up here with rotary dials only. For may years it was no American telephones between candlesticks an 2500's  

dsk

[Phonesrfun]

There was a young guya few years ago who did a rather detailed documentary of the 500 changes over the years.  He is also an (inactive) member of this forum.  He had a web page dedicated to the documentary.  I will think of his name, but I can't at this moment.

[Dennis Markham]

There was a young guya few years ago who did a rather detailed documentary of the 500 changes over the years.  He is also an (inactive) member of this forum.  He had a web page dedicated to the documentary.  I will think of his name, but I can't at this moment.

Bill, I think the young man you're referring to is named Scott....but his last name escapes me.  Is this the time-line you were referring to??

http://members.dslextreme.com/~zuperdee/telephones/500_history/we_500_history.html

[McHeath]

Yeah I was thinking of his web site as well, thanks for posting it Dennis.

d_s_k those are interesting observations of how the Western Electric 2500 was being seen in Norway when you were young.  Amusingly we never had one when I was a kid, dad was not about to pay the extra rental fee for a touch tone phone when the rotary 500 worked just fine!  There is a Cortelco made 2500 on my desk at work, it's what all the schools in the district are equipped with, and it was made in 2009.

From my own limited experience it does not seem that all the cost cutting changes made to the 500 over the decades actually reduced the durability of the product.  At least not that I can tell.  If I find a late model modular 500, and take it home and plug it in, it will work.  In fact I've yet to meet one that did not work.  What seems to break on the newer ones, mainly the Cortelco made ones, is the ringer.  In 91', I think it was, they redesigned it completely and it's very clever this new ringer, but they use poor quality materials.  The ringer in my 2500 on my desk is broken already.

[dsk]

We follow you, blindly
You started deregulation, we followed. The quality dropped, and we followed...
The first touch tone telephones here (1980) was still high quality, but not heavy enough to stand still on the table. With the modular cords, the cords started do be more stiff, so there is one of the main thing made better her than in American telephones. The cords was softer. woven of tiny copper and textile threads to form a cord just hanging down in a natural position, width no bends from winding it up or ...

I have made cloth covered cords from shoelaces, and not got them soft enough with wires from modular cords, so my next project will be to find softer cords and put them into brown paracords.

dsk

[Phonesrfun]

Dennis, yes, that's the one.  I seem to remember he did it for a college project.  I still can't remember his name.  Scott doesn't seem to trigger anything, but none the less, that is his web site.  I also seem to remember we had a little discussion about it when he joined the forum.

[JorgeAmely]

Daniel Roberts is his name.

[RotarDad]

I agree that the older 500s do have a better feel when being used.  The bakelite handsets are heavier and the Tenite has a nicer, higher-quality sound when you hang up the phone versus ABS.  Leather feet don't attract moisture, and are more slip resistant than hardened rubber feet.   The 7 dial has all metal gears and feels more sturdy (if not as smooth) as the later 9 dial.   And the hard wire looks vintage and adds a sense of permanence.   These phones were designed to be left in service for decades with minimal (if any) maintenance, and it shows.

As I think about it, I'm realizing that natural materials probably play a big part.  Bakelite and Tenite are wood cellulose-based materials, and of course leather and metals are natural materials.  Plastic shells, gears, and RJ11 jacks somehow lack the quality feel of the "real" stuff.  Of course, there is no "right" answer, because this is a hobby.... just some thoughts.

[Dennis Markham]

Daniel Roberts is his name.

Thanks Jorge for that information.  I don't know where I got Scott.  Bill you're right, I believe it was for a college project that he put together the information.

[Nilsog]

From my own limited experience it does not seem that all the cost cutting changes made to the 500 over the decades actually reduced the durability of the product.  At least not that I can tell.  If I find a late model modular 500, and take it home and plug it in, it will work.  In fact I've yet to meet one that did not work.  What seems to break on the newer ones, mainly the Cortelco made ones, is the ringer.  In 91', I think it was, they redesigned it completely and it's very clever this new ringer, but they use poor quality materials.  The ringer in my 2500 on my desk is broken already.

I agree it didn't really change the functionality of the telephone, but I do think that some of these changes reduced quality of service. I have two colored modular 500s and both of them crackle incessantly if you move the handset while talking to someone. My wife used both of them and she made me switch them both out for hardwired phones because it bothered her so much!

Overall the more I think about it it almost seems as though this was kind of foreshadowing the switch from "Make it durable and repairable!" to "Make it cheap, disposable and replaceable!" Maybe my perception is off... Just seems that way.

I agree that the older 500s do have a better feel when being used.  The bakelite handsets are heavier and the Tenite has a nicer, higher-quality sound when you hang up the phone versus ABS.  Leather feet don't attract moisture, and are more slip resistant than hardened rubber feet.   The 7 dial has all metal gears and feels more sturdy (if not as smooth) as the later 9 dial.   And the hard wire looks vintage and adds a sense of permanence.   These phones were designed to be left in service for decades with minimal (if any) maintenance, and it shows.

As I think about it, I'm realizing that natural materials probably play a big part.  Bakelite and Tenite are wood cellulose-based materials, and of course leather and metals are natural materials.  Plastic shells, gears, and RJ11 jacks somehow lack the quality feel of the "real" stuff.  Of course, there is no "right" answer, because this is a hobby.... just some thoughts.

This kind of makes sense to me as well. I wish there were some metal bodied 500s made. That is why the 300 will always win as all inclusive desk set in my book- metal trumps all!

[poplar1]

>I agree it didn't really change the functionality of the telephone, but I do think that some of these changes reduced quality of service. I have two colored modular 500s and both of them crackle incessantly if you move the handset while talking to someone. My wife used both of them and she made me switch them both out for hardwired phones because it bothered her so much! <


This is an easy fix; probably just need to replace the cords. If not that, the 616D jack in the phone or 616W jack in the handset.

[Nilsog]

This is an easy fix; probably just need to replace the cords. If not that, the 616D jack in the phone or 616W jack in the handset.

I understand that, my point was simply that it adds an extra issue.