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1937 Ivory D1--Another Long Shot

Started by WEBellSystemChristian, August 24, 2018, 11:58:53 PM

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WEBellSystemChristian

Well, I splurged yet again on a phone that might possibly be a diamond in the rough.

I'm willing to bet this is an original 1937 Ivory D1, which is hiding under another layer of Ivory paint, plus some cord and baseplate--uhh--updates... :-\

The dial is a dead giveaway to being a late '30s original color phone, but the darker Ivory showing under the lighter Ivory on the handset and under the cradle is also telling. The updates done when it was repainted Ivory (obviously by someone outside of Bell or WE) seems to include removed felt on the baseplate, with the edge painted body color and the bottom covered in some sort of carpet material. The cords may not be original, but whatever was used as a makeshift restraint on the handset is hopefully removable without paint damage. The seller says it has a '37 date inside, but didn't specify where, and there are no internal pictures among the auction photos.

At the very least, the celluloid dial plate (and possible #4 dial) have some value.

www.ebay.com/itm/123330611044

I paid $95 plus shipping for this. What do you guys make of this? Bad purchase? Good purchase? ??? I like a good mystery, even if it costs me over $100! ::)
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

poplar1

Seller said the "handset microphone insert shows date of 1937." ( i guess he means the F1 transmitter unit.) A 625A transmitter and 4J dial would be consistent with a 1937 assembly date.

BSP Section C34.101 was reissued (Issue 3) 3-15-37 "to include 4J and 5-type dials" [5H and 5E].
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

WEBellSystemChristian

Thanks David...I didn't catch that they said it was the transmitter date.

Here is the full description, for the record:

"Vintage 1930s desk phone, custom colored white, by Bell System.

Phone requires separate bell in order to ring, but can dial out. I used this phone during the late 80s as an extension. I could answer calls and dial out as long as I had another phone that rang.

Phone includes White colored fabric hard wired jack cord and white metal handset cord.

Phone has some wear on cradle and white color has faded to off white. See pictures.

Handset microphone insert shows date of 1937.

Stored in smoke free home".
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

RotarDad

I saw that phone, too Christian.  Were there factory or refurb center painted E1/D1 sets like this??  I've never heard of an authentic non-black E1.....   It does look cool (vintage paint and appears to be a quality job) and would be a nice addition to a shelf of black phones.....  :)
Paul

WEBellSystemChristian

#4
Quote from: RotarDad on August 25, 2018, 11:43:36 AM
I saw that phone, too Christian.  Were there factory or refurb center painted E1/D1 sets like this??  I've never heard of an authentic non-black E1.....   It does look cool (vintage paint and appears to be a quality job) and would be a nice addition to a shelf of black phones.....  :)
Original Ivory E1/D1s are out there, but are pretty hard to find. I don't ever remember seeing one for sale on eBay before. They were sold alongside the Metallic colors of the same era.

Here are a couple examples of original (non-Continental) Ivory D1s; the first is Dennis M's, and the 2nd was one listed on eBay. Notice the darker pre-1941 Ivory, and then look at some of the paint chips on the bottom of the E1 that I bought. That same darker color is also found on the bottom of the cradle, under the exposed paint. Also notice the bare stainless fingerwheel and dial card retainer.

I would usually guess by looking at the lighter Ivory painted over the darker Ivory that this was done at a refurb center over an existing Ivory set, but the clumsy handset cord restraint, felt glued onto the baseplate, and paint on the sides of the baseplate lead me to believe this was a home job.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

RotarDad

Thanks for the background, Christian!  I think you're probably right about the repaint over original darker ivory.  The bare finger wheel and retainer also appear correct based on the two examples you posted.  Wow, Dennis sure has some nice phones!   Would you even attempt to remove the repaint and expose the original color????  I think Unbeldi did that successfully with an early metal Ivory 302 and posted his process here somewhere.
Paul

oldguy

Great find Christian, can't wait to see the finished product. Me being a Imperial/Continental fan, I like all colored D1s.
Gary

WEBellSystemChristian

Quote from: RotarDad on August 25, 2018, 01:52:04 PM
Thanks for the background, Christian!  I think you're probably right about the repaint over original darker ivory.  The bare finger wheel and retainer also appear correct based on the two examples you posted.  Wow, Dennis sure has some nice phones!   Would you even attempt to remove the repaint and expose the original color????  I think Unbeldi did that successfully with an early metal Ivory 302 and posted his process here somewhere.

Yep, he used straight Acetone to remove some paint on the exact paint type and color that should be on this phone. It didn't harm the original Ivory, so it should be safe to use here.

I've also used Acetone to expose original paint and japanning on several phones with success.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

Doug Rose

Christian...The second pic you posted looks like a Brown Bakelite E1 which is a tough find in itself. All the years I have been looking I have ovly found ONE....Doug
Kidphone

WEBellSystemChristian

Quote from: Doug Rose on August 25, 2018, 03:19:53 PM
Christian...The second pic you posted looks like a Brown Bakelite E1 which is a tough find in itself. All the years I have been looking I have ovly found ONE....Doug

Well...let's hope mine has one! ;D
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

poplar1

Quote from: Doug Rose on August 25, 2018, 03:19:53 PM
Christian...The second pic you posted looks like a Brown Bakelite E1 which is a tough find in itself. All the years I have been looking I have ovly found ONE....Doug

Oldest brown Bakelite E1 I have found was apparently made in 1934. Older painted E1 handsets were black underneath.

By 1955, the WE repair shops had apparently figured out how to paint black handsets in various colors for the Continentals. (I have an old rose 202 assembled in 1952: its  painted F1 handset is brown Bakelite underneath.)
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

WEBellSystemChristian

Can anyone confirm that Western Electric used Ivory suede for the baseplate on these original Ivory sets? It appears that the one Dennis owns has a lighter suede (not Naugahyde like what's found on Imperials), but I can't be sure.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

rdelius

The only one i have seen had a bottom cover covered with ivory felt .Was dated 1933 or 1935 .Still have a  salvaged subset cord from it  all cloth ,no rubber.the old paint had crazed and was flaking off. No handset

Sargeguy

I sold an all original manual one a few weeks ago that was pretty dinged up for $60.
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

poplar1

Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on August 26, 2018, 01:16:13 AM
Can anyone confirm that Western Electric used Ivory suede for the baseplate on these original Ivory sets? It appears that the one Dennis owns has a lighter suede (not Naugahyde like what's found on Imperials), but I can't be sure.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=11682.msg125791#msg125791

P-290350 = ivory felt

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.