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Get 3 wire phone to work on 2 wire house?

Started by dc4code, July 09, 2018, 02:22:31 PM

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Key2871

Well he did follow the schematics, and got a no go.
There does seem to be a problem with either switches, hook, dial. Or the network is bad. Only one time have I come across a bad network in forty years of playing with WE 500 sets. It was an older 50's dated set. Using another as a test subject, I figured out the network was somehow bad. Because I connected power right to the heart of the phone, and it still didn't work. My very first parts phone was born.
KEN

dc4code

Quote from: Key2871 on July 10, 2018, 09:37:51 AM
Assuming he has a 300 ohm resistor, and a VOM, that would be helpful.
I've found that putting Tip and Ring right to the main terminals is much easier than doing volt, resistance readings. Once it can be verified that the network actually is working as it should.
I agree there must be an open in the circuit somewhere, or it could be bent shunt contacts on the dial. Inhibiting the dial tone from being heard.
I do have a Volt Meter and 9v battery but no 300 ohm resistor.

dc4code

Quote from: Key2871 on July 10, 2018, 11:57:46 AM
Well he did follow the schematics, and got a no go.
There does seem to be a problem with either switches, hook, dial. Or the network is bad. Only one time have I come across a bad network in forty years of playing with WE 500 sets. It was an older 50's dated set. Using another as a test subject, I figured out the network was somehow bad. Because I connected power right to the heart of the phone, and it still didn't work. My very first parts phone was born.
I tried it without the dial connected and the hook switch is soldered on the network I think. I do have a soldering iron but I don't know where it is on the network.

Also since this is an older phone it's possible that it could be LEAD Solder??!? so very bad to breathe in...

dc4code

Ohh, by the way as well as me following the diagram I opened up my working WE500 and copied from that as well. it's wired the EXACT same

dc4code

Quote from: Key2871 on July 09, 2018, 09:42:40 PM
To bypass all the switches, connect the tip to RR on the network, the ring to C. If that doesn't get any dial tone then yea it could be a bad network. But remove the white dial leads as well, if those aren't of adjustment you may not hear the tone.

Let me try this one second

Key2871

#35
Yea those older sets had hook leads soldered to the network. And yes it was lead solder, you can use a small fan and it will blow fumes away while you work. C on the network is right up close to the hook switch assembly, and C is in front of that.
Good luck, I hope it's not the network.
KEN

TelePlay

Quote from: Key2871 on July 10, 2018, 12:48:18 PM
And yes it was lead solder, you can use a small fan and it will blow fumes away while you work. C on the network is right up close to the hook switch assembly, and C is in front of that. I have tried lead free solder, and I don't like it as well it doesn't flow as well. But I always use a fan to avoid inhaling fumes.

     Regular Member Post

Let's not start creating a problem that does not exist. Here are the facts on solder.

Lead/tin (60/40) solder melts at 340 degrees F. Lead vaporizes (turned into a gas) at 670 degrees F. The smoke that comes off of a joint being soldered is either resin flux and/or wax/oil. I personally find the smell of flux when soldering pleasant.

Flowing lead solder on a wire joint is not dangerous to ones health (creates toxic lead fumes), especially if one is over 6 years of age.

Lead free solder is nearly pure tin and it melts at about 430 degrees F, hard to flow (melt) with a hobbyist iron or gun. It does not work well for hobbyists. And even with lead free solder, the resin flux and wax/oil fumes are still present.

Key2871

#37
Here we go again... I'm not starting anything, the previous post, was on how fumes were harmful to breathe in.
I didn't write that. I don't use a hobby iron to solder with.
And in my previous job of twenty years, the majority of my work was soldering. Sometimes all day long. But I'm not going to get into that, with you especially. Because you'll stand and tell me that I'm wrong, as usual.
But what's wrong with a little preventative action. But then again, I'm the one in the wrong again.
OK John, have it your way.
KEN

dc4code

Quote from: Key2871 on July 10, 2018, 01:24:45 PM
Here we go again... I'm not starting anything, the previous post, was on how fumes were harmful to breathe in.
I didn't write that. But what's wrong with a little preventative action. But then again, I'm the one in the wrong again.
OK John, have it your way.

Sadly...... I changed the network and it uhhh.... works....

dc4code

Quote from: dc4code on July 10, 2018, 01:30:47 PM
Sadly...... I changed the network and it uhhh.... works....

Although now the dial is WAY to fast.. how can I lower it?

Key2871

I don't know about that, and won't even try.
But good luck. The governor isn't working right, I don't know if it can be repaired.
KEN

dc4code

Quote from: dc4code on July 10, 2018, 01:31:28 PM
Although now the dial is WAY to fast.. how can I lower it?

Nervermind it's good... sadly...

why sadly?? well..

I dialed '0' for my local operator and it said 'Number not in service' so I thought the dial was too fast... well i was wrong

I picked up another phone in the house (touch tone cordless) dialed 0 'Number not in service'

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


my LOCAL OPERATOR SHUT DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I CANT ASK THEM TO MAKE A CALL FOR ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HarrySmith

Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

dc4code

I only have 1 more issue the microphone doesn't appear to work i tried another handset and still..

It's not the network because I took it out of a working environment

so I think it's a wiring issue, any common wiring problems related to microphone not working? It might be my dial wired incorrectly.

TelePlay

Quote from: Key2871 on July 10, 2018, 01:24:45 PM
Here we go again... I'm not starting anything, the previous post, was on how fumes were harmful to breathe in.
I didn't write that. I don't use a hobby iron to solder with.
And in my previous job of twenty years, the majority of my work was soldering. Sometimes all day long. But I'm not going to get into that, with you especially. Because you'll stand and tell me that I'm wrong, as usual.
But what's wrong with a little preventative action. But then again, I'm the one in the wrong again.
OK John, have it your way.

Okay, yes, if that is what your meant, the flux fumes can be harmful if one solders hours a day most days of a week in a poorly ventilated environment. Soldering a couple of wires every few days does not expose a person to the same level of flux fumes as in a commercial work environment - and I would assume OSHA long ago made sure even those areas were well ventilated to protect the employees from occupational, constant exposure.

The phrase "you can use a small fan and it will blow fumes away while you work." did not state lead or flux fumes, "blow flux fumes" would have more clearly stated the thought, saved me a lot of time responding and without my post, left a lot of people new-to-phones who may just be starting to learn how to solder in the dark about lead/tin and leadless solders.

Yes, a little prevention goes a long way. There is a small fan on the end of my workbench as well. Nothing wrong with that for any reason.

The following is what Cooper Hand Tools, the current owner of Weller Soldering Products, says about flux fumes on their web site:

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"Health hazards from inhaling and exposure to soldering fumes. Manufacturers of flux usually point out that inhaling flux fumes, created when flux is heated to soldering temperatures, will cause irritation to nose, throat and respiratory organs. Health Authorities also state that extended or repeated exposure to rosin flux may cause hypersensitivity and lead to occupational asthma. The base product found in conventional flux is called colophony. Colophony is the translucent amber-colored rosin obtained when turpentine is distilled from the resin of pine trees. Colophony has been widely used in soldering processes for many years.

What is Colophony composed of? Colophony is a mixture of approximately 90% resin acid, mostly abietic acid with 10% neutral material such as stilbenederivatives, and different kinds of hydrocarbons. When flux is heated, airborne products are generated including aliphaticaldehydes such as formaldehyde. Most fluxes are also composed of organic amine hydrochloride, an activator helping to clean the soldering area. When heated, it releases hydrochloric acid and other gases containing benzene, toluene, styrene, phenol, chlorophenol and isopropyl alcohol.

What health hazards are related to flux gases? Studies have been made on workers in the electronic industry, mostly in the United States, and England. These studies show that at least 20% of the employees working in the soldering area show clinical symptoms of asthma caused by the work environment. These symptoms are characterized by coughing, shortness of breath, wheezing and chest pain. The conclusion of these studies is that colophony fumes are the main cause of the illness and employee turnover in occupations related to soldering. Allergic hypersensitivity is common in soldering occupations. Hypersensitivity to flux fumes and their symptoms is usually developed from a period of a few months up to 16 years. The average period before the symptoms are developed is four years. Hypersensitivity of colophony is gradually indicated by wheezing and labored breathing. These symptoms are much more common by long duration of employment and they can even continue many years after the person has finished with this occupation. Eye and nose irritation is quite common, due to the fact that when flux is heated, the fumes from hydrochloric acid create a strong slime that causes irritation. Furthermore, there are reports showing that colophony may cause airborne contact skin diseases. This is attributed to many components in the flux, such as amino ethyl-ethanolamine and hydrazine that are harmful to the skin."


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So, now everyone knows all they need to know about solder and flux, its use and safety concerns. And, BTW, I do have a bit of a background in lead poising due to a prior job.  I created and ran the Wisconsin State Lab of Hygiene Childhood Blood Lead Testing Project analytical laboratory in the late 70s testing thousands of samples from children between 0 and 6 years of age living in high risk areas of the state for elevated lead levels. We also tested sources of lead, how the child ingested enough lead to raise their blood lead levels.