Colored Western Electric 302 features

[unbeldi]

This discussion arose from the restoration of an ivory 302 of 1939 and is noteworthy by itself.

I've restored 3 W.E. metal sets in the past, and painted them in Western's color code "53", Cherry Red, and they turned out quite nice, with a matching dial case, nickel plated finger wheel, number card retainer and clear switch hook plungers.
Unfortunately, the paint shop that mixed my paints and put them in spray cans for me, closed, and I can't find anyone else willing to experiment with the color pigments and match them to Western color samples.   

Jeff Lamb

The finger wheel and number card frame of the early painted color 302s from 1939 to 1941 were stainless steel, not plated, and not brass. So, they are hard to find, because no other dials used them later, I believe.
The early color 302s, before WWII, never used clear plungers.  The painted metal sets used black ones according to all that I have seen, and the plastic sets had same-colored plastic plungers. The clear plungers appear as an invention of 1949, when colored set production resumed.

[Ktownphoneco]

I didn't realize that Western actually made stainless steel finger wheels, even in limited numbers.    I've had brass obviously, steel and aluminum, but not stainless.    I just learned something, thank you.

I restores most sets with total authenticity in mind, but a few I restore simply to make them look nice.      I nickel plate brass finger wheels myself, and I buy reproduction 302 hook switch plungers from "Telephone Creations".    I know neither are authentic, but in an effort to create a colored metal 302, that's my best method.     Northern did not make any colored 302's, so color options are limited, and left to one's own ingenuity.    But they look nice.

But I fully appreciate the efforts by U.S. collectors to preserve the history of telephones made on this continent.      I've attached a picture of the telephone I was referring to.     It's a 1940 Western Electric metal 302.

Jeff Lamb

[poplar1]

     --WE #10 Catalog (1939): 5J dials with white enamel cases and stainless steel "finger wheels, finger stops and card holder frames" are shown  for ivory, pekin red, gray green, dark blue and old rose 302s.  302s in old brass, statuary bronze, oxidized silver and dark gold continue to have 5H dials with matching painted finger wheels and matching cases.

Northern did not make color 302 housings. However, they did issue (at least the) plastic color sets, with black dates stamped by NE in the WE housing, and with Northern parts other than the housing and handset plastic parts. Not sure which company made the cords.

[Ktownphoneco]

Quote  .. "However, they did issue (at least the) plastic color sets, with black dates stamped by NE in the WE housing, and with Northern parts other than the housing and handset plastic parts. Not sure which company made the cords".  unquote

Are your referring to the N.E. colored 500 sets ?

Jeff
   

[unbeldi]

I didn't realize that Western actually made stainless steel finger wheels, even in limited numbers.    I've had brass obviously, steel and aluminum, but not stainless.    I just learned something, thank you.

I restores most sets with total authenticity in mind, but a few I restore simply to make them look nice.      I nickel plate brass finger wheels myself, and I buy reproduction 302 hook switch plungers from "Telephone Creations".    I know neither are authentic, but in an effort to create a colored metal 302, that's my best method.     Northern did not make any colored 302's, so color options are limited, and left to one's own ingenuity.    But they look nice.

But I fully appreciate the efforts by U.S. collectors to preserve the history of telephones made on this continent.      I've attached a picture of the telephone I was referring to.     It's a 1940 Western Electric metal 302.

Jeff Lamb

The stainless steel finger wheels were only used on these early 5Js, and perhaps the last 4Js.  In the late 1960s and 70s, WECo also made similar looking FW for the 6T dial, officially called chrome, but I think it was anodized aluminum.

I also have to comment on your choice of handset.  You used a black Bakelite unit with grooves along the handle, which indeed was used for the same purpose in 1955 (Continental), but painted color sets, even the metallic hues available into the 1950s, used the seamless brown Bakelite types, that did not have a glossy surface.

[unbeldi]

Quote  .. "However, they did issue (at least the) plastic color sets, with black dates stamped by NE in the WE housing, and with Northern parts other than the housing and handset plastic parts. Not sure which company made the cords".  unquote

Are your referring to the N.E. colored 500 sets ?

Jeff

We have observed various color-plastic 302s that had housings and handsets from WECo, but all other parts were NECo-made.  Among them were some apparently NOS sets in original box, from sellers in CA.  The color housings had stampings characteristic of the manner of the stamping by NECo on black sets, so it is not reasonable to assume that a collector swapped housings from a Bell System set.  IIRC, handsets also exist that do not have the BELL SYSTEM mark.

[poplar1]

The stainless steel finger wheels were only used on these early 5Js, and perhaps the last 4Js. 

All the 4Js had stainless finger wheels and white cases.
Prior to 1937, all color 202s had 5H-xx 4H dials with matching finger wheels and matching cases. You had to specify the dial color such as 4HB-4 for ivory.

[Ktownphoneco]

Interesting.   The handset on the colored set which I posted pictures of, was not my choice of handset.    It came with the telephone which I purchased from a seller in the U.S.A.      After 25 years of dealing in Northern Electric telephones, I've yet to see a colored 302, marketed by Northern, regardless of who made the case.    I was raised in, and still live in, Bell Canada territory.    Back in the early 1950's, and in this area, if one wanted a telephone installed, it was by Bell Canada only, and the customer took what Bell were willing to provide, and whatever that was, it was "black".   

Jeff

[poplar1]

Quote  .. "However, they did issue (at least the) plastic color sets, with black dates stamped by NE in the WE housing, and with Northern parts other than the housing and handset plastic parts. Not sure which company made the cords".  unquote

Are your referring to the N.E. colored 500 sets ?

Jeff
   

No, I'm talking about the NE 302s with WE plastics:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=11868.msg130101#msg130101

[unbeldi]

An interesting aspect about the ivory plastic telephone that Poplar1 showed, is that the date stamps are of September 1954.  I don't think Western Electric produced any colored 302 anymore for the US telcos at this time.   By my observations this seems to have ended with the second quarter of 1954.

In 1955, they started molded some housings in CAB plastics in the colors of the 500-set.

I seem to recall that some other colored plastic NECo 302s also were made rather later, but I have not kept log, unfortunately.
Perhaps this was done only for a short period of time until the Tenite Acetate supplies were exhausted?  On the other hand, we do know that ivory Tenite Acetate was till used until December 1955 for 354 housings and F1* handsets.  Continental and Imperials 'production' also ended at that time.  I also have a Pekin Red F1* handset that was made in 1955, presumable for a Continental ?

[Ktownphoneco]

Let me make some inquiries with several individuals I know up here, and find out what they have to say about it.   One is a retired Bell technician with 35 years with the company and who retired in the early 1990's, and another who also worked for Bell and who is actually an antique telephone collector.    A third fellow is a curator at a telecommunications museum which displays only Northern and Bell Telephone Company of Canada telephone equipment.    The fourth fellow I'll check with is a long time collector with a good sized Northern collection, and who lives in Quebec.

I'll post whatever I find out, regardless of whether or not it supports my view.    In the meantime, attached is page 151 of Northern's T-8 Telephone catalog - 1954.     Next to the 302G-3 desk set, is a description of the telephone.    "Glossy black plastic" is the only color stated according to the catalog.    If they had colored sets available and were trying to sell them, they were going about it all wrong.

I'll respond with another post as soon as I've had a chance to conduct the inquiries I'd like to make.

Jeff

   

[poplar1]

An interesting aspect about the ivory plastic telephone that Poplar1 showed, is that the date stamps are of September 1954. I don't think Western Electric produced any colored 302 anymore for the US telcos at this time. By my observations this seems to have ended with the second quarter of 1954.

In 1955, they started molded some housings in CAB plastics in the colors of the 500-set.

I seem to recall that some other colored plastic NECo 302s also were made rather later, but I have not kept log, unfortunately.
Perhaps this was done only for a short period of time until the Tenite Acetate supplies were exhausted?

9-54 is the date for the Northern parts, and, presumably, for the date of assembly, not the date the housing was manufactured by WE.
Further evidence is on the "Bell System" handset, with a 6/54 vermilion date stamp, presumably stamped by WE, since NE used black ink on the housing. So, if the housing and handset were both produced ca. 6/54, that would fit your observation that production ended in the second quarter.

On the other hand, we do know that ivory Tenite Acetate was till used until December 1955 for 354 housings and F1* handsets. Continental and Imperials 'production' also ended at that time. I also have a Pekin Red F1* handset that was made in 1955, presumable for a Continental ?

I have one Imperial with at least one 1956 date (on one of the cords). This phone was never installed. Sonny bought it from the guy who had the contract to haul it from the Minneapolis Distributing House to the dump, and it "fell off the truck."

[Ktownphoneco]

Gentlemen, you are both "CORRECT" and I was wrong !     I heard from one of my contacts here in eastern Ontario ( former Bell Canada technician, and collector ), and he advises me that "YES", Northern did market colored 302's using Western made colored cases and handsets in the last generation of 302 sets shipped from the factory.         He tells me that he knows a collector in Ottawa, Ontario, who has one, which he believes is "new in the original box".    He went on to state he wasn't too keen on taking it out of the box in case it got scratched, and only looked inside at the set.
He's going to be visiting the gentleman who owns the set in the next week or so, and will try and get the fellow to remove it from the box so he can get some pictures of it and the box it's in.
I'll post the pictures once I receive them.    I'm still waiting to hear back from the other people I've contacted, and will keep you abreast of any useful information I receive.
I would suspect that Northern most likely sold the colored sets to independent telco's, and not Bell Canada, based on the time period that's involved here.    But that's an assumption on my part, based on Bell's autocratic rule within it's own jurisdiction.     
Introducing colored 302 telephones to a small number of Bell Canada customers would probably create a demand for colored sets by other customers that Northern couldn't satisfy, and at the same time, increase the work load of Bell technicians.      That, and the fact Bell would know that the arrival of the new colored 500 set was just around the corner.      But I'll try and clarify my assumption, one way or the other.
You both gave me an education this week, and that's always a good thing.   Thank you.            More information to follow hopefully.    Enjoy the day.

Jeff
 

[Ktownphoneco]

Here's some additional information I found out about this morning.      My neighbor, a retired 35 year Bell Canada technician, started working for Bell in 1958.     He said that he has never seen a colored 302 telephone, only black.    He went on to state, that they heard rumors that Northern was marketing colored sets, but to the best of his knowledge they were never purchased by Bell Canada for installation in customer's premises.     I asked him if the sets weren't being purchased by Bell Canada, who would they be most likely be sold to, and he said most likely "independent telephone companies".     I also asked him if it was possible that Bell Canada might have made the colored 302's available in different regions other than in Ontario.      He said probably not, because that sort of thing spreads like wild fire throughout Bell territory, and once one region has access to the sets, the other regions would be clamoring for them.    I would imagine the suffix letters on the individual sets would provide a clue as to who they were being marketed to.
I showed my neighbor a Western 5J dial with the clear plastic finger wheel, which he'd never seen before.         
According to this gentleman, the 500 sets started arriving at the work center stock rooms about 1960 or 1961, and he said initially, installers were given bundles of colored desk sets, wrapped together in a stack by a wide canvas belt.    Installers would bring the bundle into the customer's premises, and ask them if they'd prefer a colored set rather than a black one.     Telephones in those days were rented from Bell, and colored sets rented for more money than black ones.
More information to follow if and when I receive it.

Jeff Lamb

[unbeldi]

I am sure different installers in different areas had different experiences.
Some may not even remember anymore what sets were available 50 years ago, because they never thought it was noteworthy at the time.
As with crime, eye witness reports often are not always reliable.
Owners of such sets seem more reliable, the existence cannot be denied, but we really don't know the circumstances that led to the existence of the sets. I suppose, it is the combination of reliable references, primary documentation, and physical specimens that provide the reliable answer.