Author Topic: Just bought an early 302  (Read 1902 times)

Offline TelePlay

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7165
  • Available by PM
    • . . . the times they been a'changing
Just bought an early 302
« on: May 07, 2012, 10:35:46 PM »
A 302 is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get until you open it up.

My latest 302 just arrived today. It's at least my 10th. I've lost count.

Got it on eBay with the 6th bid and paid $61 plus $15 for shipping ( http://tinyurl.com/7g85j4b ).

The F1 handset has a 1953 F1 transmitter and a 1949 HA1 receiver. Then I opened the base. Didn't have time to take the dial off so the only date visible on the inside is on the coil - II 38. The receiver cap is dated 121537 in green inside the cap.

There is no date on the ringer but it is different from my other metal base 302s. It is a square mount held on the base by 4 rivets and then four (4) grommet absorption rivets which are visible from the bottom of the base and move when pushed on from the bottom.

Someone seems to have used something like sandpaper to remove the base date stamp below the ringer. Other than the handset elements, nothing else seems to have been changed.

The dial needs a cleaning but the number plate is is great condition, not faded or scratched. The number card ring seems to have a solid piece of metal under the acetate.

The handset and line cords seem original, are straight and are in perfect condition.

The base is "stamped" H1 into the metal on the outside just above the mouse hole and the spade lugs are soldered to the wires except for the handset cord so it may be an replacement handset. Also, the capacitor mount has a 4 sided shape that holds it in place in all directions.

So, I seem to have an early model 302 in great shape including the paint and handset.

If anyone would like to add anything to this after looking at the photos or correct anything I may have gotten wrong, please do so. Did I get a good deal on this? It is special? Unique? Rare?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 11:16:30 PM by TelePlay »
            John . . .

              

Offline TelePlay

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7165
  • Available by PM
    • . . . the times they been a'changing
Re: Just bought an early 302
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2012, 10:37:18 PM »
More photos
            John . . .

              

Offline Dan/Panther

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5349
  • Kaw-Liga, I will NEVER forget you. 8/4/98--9/20/10
Re: Just bought an early 302
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2012, 12:43:30 AM »
What is the type dial ?
D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

Offline Phonesrfun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4867
  • "Number Please"
Re: Just bought an early 302
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2012, 01:58:26 AM »
What is the type dial ?
D/P
That would be a WE #6 dial.  I believe they first came out in the early 50's.

-Bill G

Offline TelePlay

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7165
  • Available by PM
    • . . . the times they been a'changing
Re: Just bought an early 302
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2012, 06:13:08 AM »
What is the type dial ?
D/P
Didn't have time last night to pull out the dial for a good ID and couldn't see anything while mounted. Also, seems both the line and handset cord are crimped spades so both may have been changed out from, say a cloth cord, to the "new" straight rubber cords. All other lugs are soldered.

One thing missing was a mark somewhere inside or on the bottom of the technician who worked on the phone when any changes were made.

Will try to get the dial out tonight.
            John . . .

              

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5952
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: Just bought an early 302
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2012, 09:28:36 PM »
Check the date on the 6A dial and the cords. One of the cords shown in the picture has a large 5 so it is 1950-something. If the dates on the cords and on the dial are the same year, that's a pretty good indication of when this phone was "remanufactured" and reissued by the Western Electric service center ("distributing house") back to one of the local Bell companies. There's a good chance that when it was first installed in 1938, it didn't even have a dial but rather just an apparatus blank where the dial would go. A lot of areas of the country still had manual service (pick up and the operator would answer).  So one or more dials may have been added over the years, or the original one may have been defective.  The paint is better than what you usually find on metal 302s.

I don't think the technicians ever sign the phones. Sometimes there are inspector's marks in pencil or grease pencil.

One repair that was not made by Western Electric: the spade tips on the mounting cord (line cord) inside the phone are not original. Perhaps the cord was shortened a little bit and new lugs were put on; the strain relief appears to have been reattached.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 10:52:54 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline TelePlay

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7165
  • Available by PM
    • . . . the times they been a'changing
Re: Just bought an early 302
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2012, 01:05:53 AM »
poplar1,

Good info. Didn't think of looking at it that way. You are probably pretty close to what that phone may have gone through.

Pulled out the dial tonight and it is a 6A dated 2-53. The number ring is close to NOS. Another thing I noticed is that the handset and line cords are stranded wire and the wires that have soldered lugs are solid wire. The rubber gasket is in really good condition. The dial just fits into the phone. The plastic cover is right up against the switch pile. So tight that the wired can not be moved without first removing the dial.

The number card retainer does have a solid metal plate and no acetate window. Is the window missing or did they have the paper disk exposed on that version of the card holder?

The handset cord retainer has a 5 on one side of the crimp opening and a 5 on the other side so I assume that is 1955. The line cord retainer has 56 stamped on it.

Also noticed that they used a full sized soft pad under the ringer instead of the grommets used in newer 302's. And, the coil is held in place with a screw in the middle of the baseplate, not along the edge like newer phones.

And, I found 5 different marks on both ends of the capacitor retainer probably made by those who modified this phone.

I'll have to get out one of my other newer metal 302's and weigh it and this early model. This phone seems to weigh a pound more than the new metal sets. Maybe it all the extra metal in the ringer mount and capacitor retainer. It is a B1A ringer, just one held in place by a mounting bracket having a lot more and thicker metal.

Here are more pictures.
            John . . .

              

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5952
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: Just bought an early 302
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2012, 08:29:05 AM »
The acetate window is just  missing along with the paper number card...

The porcelain number plate has a black dot between the 1 and the 0; this is the original style number plate for the 6A dial; it indicated a 6 type dial instead of a 5. The date is on the back of the number plate. Later on, the black dot was gone, but the number "6" was stamped into the finger stop itself, and a "universal" 164A number plate was used which would fit on either the 6A dial or as a replacement for the 150B, 149B and 132B number plates on older dials.

Sometimes you can spot the 6A dials in a photo because they are not as flush as the older dials. Starting around 1952, the 6A became standard on 302s, but on any 302s older than 1952 they have to have been replacement parts, not original to the phone.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Doug Rose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6656
  • Blondie & the Kid of Phone
Re: Just bought an early 302
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2012, 09:15:26 AM »
Not too many #6 dial plates were made with the Z. I would try to get and #5 dated II 38 or there abouts. Elements dated 38 should be easier...nice phone....Doug
Kidphone

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5952
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: Just bought an early 302
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2012, 10:01:07 AM »
The Z was phased out around late 1953; it may have been because all NPAs (area codes) for DDD (direct distance dialing=long distance) had 1 or 0 as the second numeral; thus a Z in the 0 position if used as a central office name would conflict with an area code.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline cloyd

  • ****
  • Posts: 347
Re: Just bought an early 302
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2016, 01:17:23 PM »
Also noticed that they used a full sized soft pad under the ringer instead of the grommets used in newer 302's. And, the coil is held in place with a screw in the middle of the baseplate, not along the edge like newer phones.

It is a B1A ringer, just one held in place by a mounting bracket having a lot more and thicker metal.

John,
Did you learn anything else about the way the ringer is mounted on your phone?  I have one that is mounted the same way.  Is the ringer removable when it is attached this way?

Tina Loyd
-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Van Gogh -- 1885