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AE80 questions

Started by DNO, October 12, 2013, 05:10:45 PM

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DNO

I just got home from a house contents sale where I managed to find my first AE80.  Although I already have a AE34, Automatic Electric phones just aren't too common in my neck of the woods so I was pretty delighted to find this one.

I've spent some time perusing the old posts regarding AE80's but I think I may need some help dating the phone.  In addition there is one issue with the handset.

Dating first:
--the phone has the early triangular feet, the potted network, the manually adjusted compensation dial on the base, the handset cord enters at the back of the phone, it has 3 base mounting screws,  and it's heavy...really heavy.
--on the other hand, it has clear plastic plunger, a plastic finger wheel and the receiver cap has six holes.
--finally, it appears to have been painted.  The handset looks like it was originally black and possibly Bakelite. It's quite textured.  The shell seems to have been black as well.
--the sticker on the bottom is from Automatic Electric Canada, with the latest patent date being 1953.
--the shell, on the other hand, has the marking for Automatic Electric from Northlake, Illinois between the plungers on the top.
--finally, the numbers by the finger wheel appear to be a sticker (due to the painting, perhaps?)

All of that leaves me a bit baffled  (most of my phones are Northern Electric).  I really like the design however.  

The handset problem is one of volume, both outgoing and receiving.  It's quiet...too quiet. Would adjusting the manual dial on the bottom fix this?  

Thanks for your patience.

David

David

G-Man

Generally a type-80 "talks-up" well so perhaps you have a wiring issue.

Shown below is a wiring diagram for you model.

The potentiometer/rheostat on the bottom is for the adjustment for side-tone and transmitter current. It won't hurt for you to adjust it. Remember it is not desirable to adjust it to hear your own voice loudly.

Are you referring to the finger-wheel or the number plate regarding some sort of stickiness?

DNO

Thanks for the reply.

Nothing is sticky, however.  The finger wheel works quite well.  It's not obvious in the photo but the numbers and letters on the dial are in the form of a sticker, not painted, stamped or cast in the plastic like a 500.  I'm assuming that this was done when it was painted.
David

DNO

Here's a photo that shows the edge of the number/letter sticker.
David

AE_Collector

#4
Hi DNO:

Yeah your AE 80 is a major refurb though it appears to have kept it's old original era case that has been painted. Obviously the number plate was also painted and a clear numbers/letters sticker put on top. This was never an original thing by AE. The handset is obviously painted Ivory as well but I can't tell for certain if it is plastic or bakelite. Bakelite would have been typical for an old original potted network/manual compensator AE 80 like this.

AE was notoriously BAD at dating phones. The predecessor AE 40's virtually NEVER were dated. As te switch from 40's to 80's took place they did finally start dating phones through until they stopped making phons all together by 1988. These very early 80's were still void of any dates in most cases but some before too long began  to get a date stamped onto the base. This one doesn't appear to have been dated.

AE 80's arrived on the scene officially late in 1954 but since they aren't ever dated then no one knows if they have seen one or not! The absolute oldest 80's had a dial similar to the dial in a 40 with a seperate add-on plastic number ring added to the outter edge of the dial assembly as opposed to the plastic number plate beginning under the FW and continuing outside of the FW area. (FW = Finger Wheel). This one doesn't have that earliest arrangement but then the parts put onto it when it was refurbed are not neccesarily the exact parts tha came off of it.

It would have also had chromed brass plungers originally and a black painted brass FW on it since it was black. The colored 80's that soon followed the initial black 80's had a clear plastic FW with a chrome number card ring so this FW is newer as well.

The gold decal with Automatic Electric Canada on it rather than Phillips Electrical Works could have helped date it since Phillips became AE Canada in 1954 with a move to a brand new plant. But since the 80 was introduced in 1954 (ish) that doesn't help here.

Still, a decent AE 80 for the collection.

Terry


DNO

#5
Thanks for the help, Terry.

Basically that was what I figured it must be...sort of mid-to-late 50's with a significant refurbish later on.  It only set me back $3...well worth it for the education.

I'll keep hunting.  At least I know a lot more about AE 80's now!  I wish they were more readily available in this area.
David

AE_Collector

The good Handset cord is worth the $3.

Terry

rdelius

Early type 80s would have Chicago instead of Northlake. The dial assy was held in place with screws instead of snapping in place with prongs.Also might have Leich instead of AE on the base plate  but AECO on the shell

DNO

#8
The depth of knowledge of the members of this forum is really impressive.  Thanks again for sharing.

Oh, and comparing the actual wiring with the wiring diagram I can see there are a number of discrepancies.  Although by no means competent in this sort of thing, I do find it quite interesting...even fun.  Time to fix the wiring! 
David

AE_Collector

You will quite likely run into descrepancies with the way the ringer is wired. Without looking at the drawing first I am certain that you will find it has the ringer/capacitor connected from one side of the line to the ground in the set cord but being that it is a comparatively modern refurb it will likely actually have the ringer/capacitor bridged across the line. You will likely want to keep the ringer "bridged" to keep it working.

Terry

DNO

I don't know if this will help.  I created the images below to help organize my rewiring effort.  Everything currently works fine except for the incoming and outgoing volume...it's really quiet. 

The first diagram shows how it is currently wired.  Note that the handset cord is 4 conductor (red, black, and two whites).    The second diagram is how the AE80 wiring diagram indicates it should be.
David

AE_Collector

#11
wow...there are a couple of wires there that are where they are supposed to be! But as you say...it works.

These would have originally had a 3 conductor handset cord (likely green, red & yellow) where the green lead was common to both the receiver and the transmitter capsule within the handset. This one looks to have a non AE 4 conductor handset cord now so adjustment will have to be made for that.

Your 80 does have a potted network in it doesn't it? As opposed to a printed circuit network where you can see all of the resistors and capacitors etc?

Has your rheostat being removed from the circuit? And you don't have a line cord lead on 8 which is where it should be. Are you certain you have the woring diagram for an 80 with potted network? I can't recall if 8 & 10 are still line cord green and red on the potted networks but 8 & 10 is correct for all subsequent PCB networks. I think the side of the potted networks say L1 & L2 as well as terminal numbers where the line cord belongs.

Terry

AE_Collector

You have to go to the "wooden Phones" section to find pictures of an AE Potted Network!

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=10285.0

Terry

G-Man

Here is a color-coded version of the schematic that may be of assistance. I have modified it to reflect the 4-conductor handset cord.

DNO

"Wow" was my reaction when I was working my way through the wiring diagram as well!  It's a potted network all right (photo below) and the rheostat is still wired in.  The line cords should be going to 8 and 10...but aren't.   Think I'll just pull it all off and follow the diagram.

And thanks for the coloured diagram, G-man.  It's the same diagram I'm working from but having it coloured sure makes it easier to follow. 

David