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Oldest C/D 500?

Started by RotarDad, December 04, 2013, 10:31:31 PM

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RotarDad

Just ran across this phone on Ebay.  A 3/52 C/D 500.  I don't think I've seen an older one.  The C/D has the 425B network.  The  original versions, 500, A/B 500 or T,J,K models had the 425A.  Anyone seen an earlier dated C/D??  
Paul

TelePlay

#1
See this?

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2394.0

and this?

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=327.0

I didn't look through these to sort out network types vs dates, though.

RotarDad

#2
John - Thanks for the links, and I have read through those.  All of the earlier 500s I've seen are the 425A network (500, A/B 500, 500 T, J or K).   I was just wondering when exactly the "new" 425B network was introduced, and I don't remember ever seeing a C/D model older than this 3/52 example.   I'm guessing Paul F will have some input here as well.
Paul

poplar1

Paul, 3/52 is early for an original (not converted) 500D. I don't recall seeing one earlier than 6/52.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

paul-f

When researching the early history of the 500-series several years ago, several of us conducted an intensive literature search and could only find general references to the 425B or 500D beginning in 1952 (no month specified).  There may be a short announcement in one or more of the monthly employee publications waiting to be found.

I have been keeping track of date sightings for some time and have recorded 500D references beginning in 3/52 -- but 500Ts were reported dated as late as 10/52.  Apparently both 425A and B networks were made for several months.

We have also discussed the differences between manufacturing dates stamped on products versus marketing dates -- when products were announced in the press.  Manufacturing generally started several months before a product's announcement and availability.
Visit: paul-f.com         WE  500  Design_Line

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unbeldi

#5
I have one that is all dated April and May 1952.  Base 5/52, network 4/52.
The network has no terminal designations on the side, only the date stamp in yellow.

*Base: C/D 500 5/52
*Housing: black Tenite  5 1 52 3
*Dial: 7A  4-52, metal finger plate, card retainer missing
*Ringer: C2A, 5-52
*Network:  4-52,  425B (not marked, only date),
*Handset: G1 Bakelite 5-52
**RX: U1, 4-30-52, cap: 4-52, no center hole
**TX: T1, 4-52 30, cap: 5-52, no center hole
**Cord: h/w coiled, round, damaged in middle, H4CJ
*Line cord: h/w, black, 4-prong Bakelite plug,


I also have one dated 11/52 on the base, and the network has no markings either.

RotarDad

Thanks all for the feedback!  I'll keep an eye out for an earlier C/D than 3/52, but it sounds like that may be the start date.  I have a 3/52 501T and have seen T models later in '52 also, so WE probably wanted to use up the 425A inventory before they stopped T production.
Paul

Greg G.

Quote from: RotarDad on December 04, 2013, 10:59:37 PM
John - Thanks for the links, and I have read through those.  All of the earlier 500s I've seen are the 425A network (500, A/B 500, 500 T, J or K).   I was just wondering when exactly the "new" 425B network was introduced, and I don't remember ever seeing a C/D model older than this 3/52 example.   I'm guessing Paul F will have some input here as well.

What markings or physical characteristics distinguishes a 425A from B? 
The idea that a four-year degree is the only path to worthwhile knowledge is insane.
- Mike Row
e

Phonesrfun

#8
425 A has M and E terminals and the 425B does not.  425 B has BK and the 425 A does not.  Also, physical placement of the terminals.  The phone you have in the picture is the early 500 in the Seattle museum, and it has the 425A network with the separate equalizer.  The 425 B has different components to achieve the equalization that are built into the network.

Also, the black plastic top with the terminals on it has the 425 A or 425 B embossed in the plastic.
-Bill G

gpo706

My black C/D 500 from Michigan has 7/50 on the base, I posted a thread about it on here somewhere...
"now this should take five minutes, where's me screwdriver went now..?"

Contempra

No rotardad. mine is a C/D 500 - 5/53 - black and I love it ;)

Greg G.

#11
Quote from: Phonesrfun on December 05, 2013, 02:07:22 AM
425 A has M and E terminals and the 425B does not.  425 B has BK and the 425 A does not.  Also, physical placement of the terminals.  The phone you have in the picture is the early 500 in the Seattle museum, and it has the 425A network with the separate equalizer.  The 425 B has different components to achieve the equalization that are built into the network.

Also, the black plastic top with the terminals on it has the 425 A or 425 B embossed in the plastic.

Got it.  Of the pics that I have of 500s with a 425 A or B embossed network designation that was visible (not covered by a wire), they appear in the front corner along the outside.  Couldn't tell from my pics where or if there's an embossed mark on the 425 E, but they appeared to have switched to white plastic.  The Bs and Es are also clearly marked on the side.

Once again, I learned something new about analyzing phone components for clues about their age.
The idea that a four-year degree is the only path to worthwhile knowledge is insane.
- Mike Row
e

RotarDad

I think I've found a C/D 500 (425B net) older than the 3/52 date we discussed earlier.  See the pic below.  This sure looks like a CD 500 from 2/52, and there seems to be no "/" between the C and D.  There is no sign of any equalizer or terminal strip ever being installed here either.  I wonder if the first 425B units were labeled "CD", and then they switched to "C/D"?
Paul

Phonesrfun

All of what you say may be true.  In terms of the dates the phone company uses, 2/52 and 3/52 could, after all, be only one day apart.  Perhaps the real story would be what is the date on the 425B network itself, since those are typically riveted to the base and follow the base even through refurbs.

This phone may have been refurbed at some point is its life, based on the neoprene front feet.  I don't know what years that style of feet were in place, but definitely well after the original 1952 date.  I'm guessing that style was probably early to mid 1960's but I am not any where near certain.  Since the feet were never replaced in the field, the replacement is likely the result of a refurb.

Even if the front feet are the result of a refurb, the base and the network date will be revealing.

The one thing I hate about those rubber feet is the damage the off-gassing does to the rest of the base.

-Bill G

paul-f

I believe the style of the front feet was used between about 8/56 and 5/63.

The network date would help a lot.
Visit: paul-f.com         WE  500  Design_Line

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