New Guy Looking For Help With AE 80

[Jim King]

Hello all, I'm new to the forum. I can't say that I could call myself a telephone collector, but I have been collecting for what I started out calling my sixties room, but has actually ending including things I remember and used spanning from 1958 to 1978. Some audio, electronics, media, furniture and other things including a pink Western Electric 500, I found at the bottom of a junk pile covered in grease which just took a good cleaning and cleaning and oiling the dialer to work fine. But I was looking for a blue phone to match my blue Sears & Roebuck 1966 portable typewriter. I found an Automatic Electric model 80 at a flea market last week for ten bucks, which is almost blue and fits in better, it's kind of greenish but the cord and the inside of the cover is more blue, (I saw that there are some posts already about restoring color, but I'll get to that later, if I'm able to get this thing working.) Preferably I'd like a blue slimline to go in that spot someday.
Sorry about the rambling on, I saw an introduction forum, but since no one had posted there lately it seems that fell by the wayside.
Another apology in advance is that some of the information I'm hoping to find might already be posted. I'm currently limited on my internet connection to a very frustrating 24 kps (but that's another story having to do with people in India that are apparently just reading scripts and don't really know or have the authority to fix anything.) So it's hard for me to go through all the posts, especially if there's a lot of pictures, I can make a pot of coffee and come back before the page is loaded.
I did try a few searches under AE 80, Automatic Electric etc., and did find a few good things, I found the schematic that matches mine on another site (it had one tucked inside but had some stamps over part of it. The schematic that matches it is for a standard type 80 manually adjusted telephone set (N-802 series).
Now (if you're still with me and haven't been put off by my rambling I'll try to get to the point of my questions about what I've done and hope to find some solutions for on the AE 80.
Before hooking it up and testing it at all: the dial would barely turn, so I sprayed it out with some WD-40 and it started mechanically working (I mentioned this to the administrator when I signed up he pointed me to the post about how to clean them properly with electronics cleaner.) And I cleaned away the wd-40 for with alcohol for now 'till I can pick up some electronic cleaning spray.) Which I'm glad I found out because besides making my WE 500 dial slower than it could be. When I took the dialer on the AE apart I could see that the oil was actually adhering between the contact points, but as I said that is all clean and dry now.
I made drawings and notes as I took it apart the first time. When I put it back together I wired it back up in the condition I got it, nothing worked. So I went through the wires with the schematic and a couple of wires were in the wrong place. That gets me to where I am now. I get a dial tone now and can receive calls on it. But neither the dialer or the ringer work. When I got it the ringer was disconnected, it is hooked up as the schematic says it should be now. I'm a lot less concerned with the ringer than the dialer really, I thought about just disconnecting it again just to eliminate another possible problem that may be affecting something else for now. The dialer doesn't seem to be doing anything at all, no noise or change from the dial tone when dialed.  I saw on another post that some were set up for party lines and that could be an issue. The rheostat seems to have no effect on anything when set in different positions suggested in the manual.
I've seen a few different configuration changes to the wiring on different schematic sheets and manuals I've looked at. But to tell you the truth by the time I got to the point of hooking it up the second time, and having my face in the thing for more hours in a row than I should have without taking a break, I was felling pretty brain dead to having a hard time deciphering some of the instructions.
Jeeze didn't set out to write a book here. Just seems that with the first phone I got, the 500, it seemed that it was easy to find easy solutions to common problems, but I'm not having much luck yet with the ae80.
So- in conclusion, my dialers broke, or something's wired wrong, or ?. Where should I start what are some basic things to look for?
Thanks, Jim King

[AE_Collector]

Hi Jim:

Welcome to the Classic Rotary Phone Forum. No one will get on your case for too much info (rambling) here.

A couple of things come to mind as far as the lack of ring from your ringer. Your phone sounds as though it is a fairly old version of the AE80 so it ay very well have a frequency ringer rather than a straight line ringer. It is a bit difficult t otell you how to determine this if pictures are a problem for you. AE ringers frequently have their frequency stamped on the metal between the two ringer coils. It might say "SL" for straight line or possibly 20~,  25~, 30~, 42~, 50~, 54~, 66~ etc. See if you can find anything written there. ALso, tell us what markings are on the base of the phone, not insode but right on the underside. These markings sometimes indicate ringer frequency.

What type of set cord (cord to the wall) is on the phone? A modualr plug in or an older spade tipped cord?  If a spade tipped cord you likely need to hook the yellow and green together on one side of the phone line and red goes to the other side.

As for the dial, it is at least partially working or you wouldn't be able to use the phone. Part of the speach path is going through contacts in the dial unless the dial is completely bypassed in the wiring inside the phone. Is there any chance of taking a picture of the back of the dial and posting it, even if it is a fairly low resoultion picture.

If that isn't to hard to accomplish, post a picture of the ringer as well.

Again, welcome to the forum.

Terry

[Jim King]

Hi Terry, Thanks for the response and the welcome.  I won't be able to do any pictures for at least a few days. I'll borrow my daughters or get one of the kids to take some pictures with a phone camera tomorrow. Here's the information you asked about the phone. On the metal between the coils on the ringer, is a yellow sticker on which is printed:  
D-56548 – A16
16.6 ~   .7MF COND
Automatic Electric Company
D-530139-C
At the back of the ringer is a little gray box (maybe a capacitor?) on which is printed:
Automatic Electric CO.
D-6869-A
.7 MF
TEST
500 VDC
LN
The information printed or stamped on the base of the phone is as follows:
Monophone
Automatic Electric
*Registered Trademark
CAN. And U.S.A. Pat. Off.
D-780656 – A6
Chicago - 7, ILL.  Made in USA
(These next characters appear to be hand stamped):  N  822  15  CX  X
(Then back to printed on, at the bottom):   7 – 57 – 1
One thing I noticed about the base is that it may have been used during the time of a changeover in manufacturing or something because it has a slot for a thumbwheel adjuster for the bells, but it has the older offset screw holes in the bells for adjustment.
Inside the cover is a card with a schematic and some other information. It has 5 wiring configurations discussed on it, but number 5, in which it talks about "metallic (bridged ringing)" I can't read because it has some hand stamped letters across that information.
Also it has a chrome ring around the number card, which I read elsewhere may be a clue that it's an older model.
You also asked about the line cord, it's the old spade clip type. On that subject I need some clarification. Red to Red, then the I have the yellow and green left which you say to put together on the other side, but I have a green and yellow in the wall connection, which of those would be the other side be?, if I'm understanding you right.
I scanned the card that was inside, and I'll try to get some pictures up as soon as I'm able.
Thanks a lot. I'll try hooking it up as you said, once I get clarification on that.
By the way, I thought I had a blank number card, but when I took it out, it was upside down and had the old number card- Myrtle 3423.

Thanks again, Jim King

[Jim King]

A few more novice questions:

1.   On the black box (what I think is called the transmission box or something like that), on the number 1 terminal there is a shinny metal wire clip type thing. What is that for?
2.   When I pulled that box off, while cleaning out the phone I saw that there was some clear grease or gel type stuff, a small amount had leaked around the corners. I cleaned away the small amount that leaked out, and left it alone for now. I've seen similar stuff in electronic equipment, but it was more congealed or solidified. Should that thin plastic backing over it (actually the bottom), be attached with an adhesive?
3.   What type of lubricant should I use for the dialer an oil or grease? It seems to me a slight amount of grease might work best on the cam.

This is getting fun. I really enjoy fixing up old stuff. My dad taught me a lot about fixing things, mostly cars and household stuff. With seven kids he never had any money to pay other people to work on anything. It's amazing that probably at least 90 percent of the old things I've tried to fix was mostly just cleaning things out. I've resurrected two old BSR turntables just by cleaning out the old grease and re-greasing them. You'd be amazed at how many people will throw out a good vacuum cleaner that's just got a clog in it.
      I've found since collecting stuff how old memories come up. I remembered a few things that came back to me when I hooked up my working WE 500. I almost unconsciously tapped the cradle switch a few times and was surprised that the operator answered, just like in the old days.
    One important thing I remember my uncle who was a fireman warning about, when I was a kid. He had been on more than a few fires that had started from people running the line cords from the old telephones under a rug or carpet, especially if the phone was left off the hook, which people often did when they didn't want to be disturbed.
Anyway I digress, I'll try to remember to keep my rambling for the forum section that's set up for talking about other stuff.

Peace, Jim King

[HarrySmith]

Hi Jim! First, welcome to the forum and welcome to the madness! You only have 2 phones so far but as you already stated you are looking for another, maybe a Trimline. Then there will be another model or another color and it continues! Get out now and save yourself
As far as wiring your AE80, the black box is called a potted network and the goo is dielectric compund, there is a wiring diagram here which is what I use:
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_details&gid=1860&Itemid=11
Good luck

[AE_Collector]

On the metal between the coils on the ringer, is a yellow sticker on which is printed:  
D-56548 – A16
16.6 ~   .7MF COND

At the back of the ringer is a little gray box (maybe a capacitor?) on which is printed:
Automatic Electric CO.

The information printed or stamped on the base of the phone is as follows:
Monophone
(These next characters appear to be hand stamped):  N  822  15  CX  X
(Then back to printed on, at the bottom):   7 – 57 – 1
One thing I noticed about the base is that it may have been used during the time of a changeover in manufacturing or something because it has a slot for a thumbwheel adjuster for the bells, but it has the older offset screw holes in the bells for adjustment.

Thanks again, Jim King

From the top...the 16.6~ indicates it is a frequency ringer so for the most part it isn't going to work on your modern phone line. You might be able to mis-adjust it enough to get a little bit of sound out of it, or you can replace it or leave it original with it not ringing. Other clues are the CXX code on the base indicates that it was originally made without a ringer so that the telephone company would install the correct ringer upon installation. That avoided having to carry an unmanageble number of phone combinations with each color and model and ringer type. Another clue is as you mention, a slot for a ringer volume control but no adjustment knob/lever. Frequency ringers never had volume controls.

Yes the gray box on the ringer frame is the required capacitor for the ringer. Later models didn't have the capacitor mounted to the ringer but used a capacitor with spade tips right on the network.

For the N  822  15  CX  X on the base of the phone see the AE chart on Paul-F's web site http://www.paul-f.com/AEcolors.htm
NA = Manually adjusted set with a potted transmission unit and a Type 81 handset (your N model rather than NA is older than the chart covers)
Base number: Digits 1 & 2: Model Digit 3: Handset Cord (2=retractile)
Digits 4&5 = color = Turquoise
C XX = metropolitan dial (numbers & letters) / XX = no ringer

7 – 57 – 1 indicates it was made in July 1957. The final digit 1 isn't the day but possibly is a plant code.


You described the color as blue but somewhat green which describes AE's turquoise color which is the color indicated by the 15 on the base. It also sounds as though it has discolored from the original color which also is very common.

This is a very old colored AE 80, within the first couple of years of colored 80's and within the first three years of the AE model 80. It probably also has chrome hookswitch plungers, the chrome ring around the number card (you already confirmed this) and the case and handset are most likely SOFT plastic rather than HARD plastic.

Terry

[AE_Collector]

A few more novice questions:

1.   On the black box (what I think is called the transmission box or something like that), on the number 1 terminal there is a shinny metal wire clip type thing. What is that for?
2.   When I pulled that box off, while cleaning out the phone I saw that there was some clear grease or gel type stuff, a small amount had leaked around the corners. I cleaned away the small amount that leaked out, and left it alone for now. I've seen similar stuff in electronic equipment, but it was more congealed or solidified. Should that thin plastic backing over it (actually the bottom), be attached with an adhesive?
3.   What type of lubricant should I use for the dialer an oil or grease? It seems to me a slight amount of grease might work best on the cam.

    One important thing I remember my uncle who was a fireman warning about, when I was a kid. He had been on more than a few fires that had started from people running the line cords from the old telephones under a rug or carpet, especially if the phone was left off the hook, which people often did when they didn't want to be disturbed.

Peace, Jim King

1 - the clip attached to the "network" or "Transmission unit" is just to aid in keeping the wiring neat.

2 - Harry covered this, nothing to worry about as long as you don't get it all over your clothes or other phone parts. It isn't much fun to clean up!

3 - I'm not the one to advise on the dial repairs but someone will chime in or search past threads on here, should be lots covering dial repairs. Other options are sending it to Steve Hilsz who will correctly clean, oil and calibrate it for $6 plus postage.

I don't think you have to lose any sleep over your phone casuing a fire. Phone wires in houses have only VERY rarely resulted in fires if the lines outside were hit by lightning. Someone is probably confusing lamp cords with phone cords as far as being run under rugs and causing fires.

Terry

[AE_Collector]

I forgot to comment on the yellow with green at the wall block. Since we now know that you have a frequency ringer it probably doesn't matter. You can hook red to red and green to green at the wall block and the yellow won't matter. If you want to see if you can get anything from your ringer, put the yellow of the set cord with green on the green at the wall block. That should put the ringer across the line (bridged or metallic) ringing. You should have diual tone and be able to dial or answer calls with just the green and red connected.

Terry

[Jim King]

Thanks a lot Terry, You're a wealth of information. Thanks for taking the time to translate all the information for characters on the phone for me. Now that I'm getting to know a lot more about her, I think I like this turquoise beauty a great deal more. I was thinking about trading it, but since the phone and I are about the same age. I think I'll have to keep her.

[Dan]

Hey Jim ,if you are out of indiana, (connersville) let me know. I know you. If not, well you have a common name.

[AE_Collector]

I was thinking about trading it, but since the phone and I are about the same age. I think I'll have to keep her.

That phone is 2 months YOUNGER than me..

Terry

[Jim King]

Hey Jim ,if you are out of indiana, (connersville) let me know. I know you. If not, well you have a common name.

No he's not me. I grew up in Pomona, California and live in Seattle, Washington now.

[Jim King]

I tried hooking up the phone last night still only recieving calls, tried it both ways with just the green and both green and yellow from the line cord to the green side of the junction box.
Still can't dial out. I'm gonna pull the dialer out again today, and using the manual I downloaded from a link somewhere on here go through and see if I can get it to work at all.
Thanks again for everybody's help.

[AE_Collector]

I tried hooking up the phone last night still only recieving calls, tried it both ways with just the green and both green and yellow from the line cord to the green side of the junction box.
Still can't dial out.

Yeah the green with yellow on the set cord would only have a potential of getting the ringer working and even then only of it had a SL Straight Line ringer in it. It wouldn't do anything for your dial problem! That is either contacts on the dial OR wiring within the phone.

Once you can get some pictures of the connections and the contacts on the back of the dial, someone here will be able to help you. Meanwhile, check the wiring in the phone again.

Terry

[Jim King]

It's alive!  As you suggested I checked all the wiring again. When I was doing the wiring I noticed there was some black electrolysis, oxidation or something on some of the spade clips, which I sanded off. And I pulled one of the screws out and noticed that the same thing was on the screws where they met the spade clips, so I cleaned up all the screw too. Hooked it up, dialed up my mom and it worked pretty good. The volume, both receiving and transmitting seems a little low. But I never got into the handset yet, it may need some cleaning up too.
I did run into another small problem though. Since it seems I'm done with the dialer for now. I went to put the finger wheel card back in. When I took the card out the first time I pried out the flexible plastic cover. So I wanted to put it back together right, because the first time I slipped it back in with a flat jewelers screwdriver and in the process I messed the edges all up. The edges don't show when its in the wheel, so I'd like to keep the original one.
I usually am pretty careful to make sketches and notes of things as I take them apart, but when I popped of the chrome center ring everything fell apart on me and I'm having a bit a trouble getting it back as it was. I might just be tired. Maybe I let it go 'till tomorrow and give it another go.
I tried to get some pictures with a second hand camera I picked up at the thrift store for a couple of bucks. I can see why they gave it away, it takes very poor blurry pictures. But I'll put a couple of them up anyway; in case they might help someone, help me put the finger wheel back together right.