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302 Problems!

Started by Sargeguy, November 09, 2008, 11:56:30 PM

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Sargeguy

Last week I received a 302 from eBay ($24.99).  It was intact except for the missing dial card holder.  I gave it the once over and was really pleased with it.  The thermoplastic housing was intact and scratch-free, showing only minor signs of wear.  The handset was also in super condition with minimal wear.  There was a little rust and chipped paint on one side of the fingerwheel. When I turned it over I was a little concerned about some minor rust on the bottom and what looked like a suspiciously shiny screw.  The vinyl cords were pliable and problem free.  I hooked it up to test it.  It didn't ring and there was a lot of static on the line so I cracked it open.  The first thing I noticed was the smell.  It was musty with mildew/mold.  There was filmy residue over many of the parts and up the insides about 1 inch.  I concluded that the phone had been submerged at some point and not aired out when it dried.  I got the ringer working again by switching the ringer wires around, but I noticed I had a pretty bad sidetone problem.  I decided to "refurbish" it.

I disassembled the phone into all of its component parts, leaving the dial intact.  I cleaned the base with WD-40 and the housing with soap and water.  I examined the wires for defects and cleaned the spades with a Dremel.  I noticed that there was residue inside the plastic cup that covers the back of the dial, so I removed that and cleaned it.  I also notice that the dial spring was rusty so I rubbed in a little WD-40. 

I reassembled the phone and rewired it according to a schematic from the internet (302A).  The sidetone was gone, but so was my voice-no one can here me.  As I was doing so, the dial spring  popped out.  I recoiled it as best I could and put the fingerwheel on, but the dial feels slightly wobbly.  I rewired it again according to a slightly different schematic (302E) but it still doesn't work. and it still doesn't transmit. 

Problems:

Not transmitting my voice

Not breaking tone when I dial

Dial spring keeps popping out.

If anyone has any suggestions on which wires to fiddle with, etc. please LMK.  I am still a newbie at this. 

Thanks,

Greg
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

McHeath

I know very little about the 302 series, what say our experts?

Looked like it had been submerged eh?  Did that phone come from New Orleans by any chance?

Dennis Markham

I would be glad to help you out with the phone.  I think some photos would probably be in order.  There could be a number of issues.  As far as the dial goes, (sounds like a #6 if it has a plastic cover on the back) it can be repaired, no problem.  If you would like to e-mail some photos to me, just send me a message here and I'll reply with my e-mail address.

If the transmitter got wet that could be a problem too.  My thought exactly was what Heath asked...was it from New Orleans...or don't forget the midwest was under water this spring too.

Dan/Panther

Just a guess on my part, but when the spring came out, out you most likely lost the alignment of the cam that closes contacts, allowing the transmitter to operate.
It's not complicated but tricky getting the dial wheel, spring, and cams all aligned properly and preloading the spring all at once.
I can't tell you exactly how to do it, On my 302, it took 3 tries to get it right.

I just happened to think, if the spring for the dial return is out, If I'm not mistaken, that means the nut holding the mainshaft in, has been taken off, or is very loose, and perhaps about to come off. It's located on the back of the dial. To remove the finger wheel, should not have effected the dial return spring, unless the nut was loose or off of the back of the shaft which would allow the shaft the move forward, and the sring to slip loose.
D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

bingster

I think Dan's on to something about the alignment.  If you carefully lift the hub retainer (the flat piece that connects to the spring and holds it down), you can turn it a half-turn (or one and a half turns, if necessary) tighter, so that the little pointy tab (which is on the right) points to the left.  Push the retainer back in place, and let it return to it's stop on the right.  See if that fixes things.

Some of the springs do just pop out.  There's a note in the BSPs about blackened nuts vs. bright brass nuts.  One color indicates the dial has some sort of "stay" to keep the spring in place when the fingerwheel is removed, and the other color means it doesn't.  Can't remember which is which off the top of my head, and I only have the kind that pops out at you while your head's turned.
= DARRIN =



Sargeguy


The phone was from Maine

The transmitter was working prior to my re-wiring job.

I will try to post pictures this evening.

Greg
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

Mark Stevens

Quote from: Sargeguy on November 10, 2008, 07:13:44 AM

The phone was from Maine

Good fishing in Maine...maybe it was used as a sinker!  Have no fear Greg, if Dennis is on the job you can bet your phone will be brought back to life. If you have any problems with uploading photos you might read this: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=19.0

Dan/Panther

Mark;
I thought Boatanchors were exclusive to radios, Are we going to have a Boatanchor section, but call it Sinkers ?

D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

Sargeguy

#8
Here are some pics:





If the pics don't show, here are a couple links:

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LSvMmDGttkqHA4XP4Ov3Bg
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/9aLFhOTrg9kJBWqWI-en3g

( dead links 03-13-21 )

I moved various wires around the dial, but still no transmitting ???

Thanks
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

bingster

Okay, the first thing we need to do is make sure that only marked terminals on the dial are used.  Right now the two screws I've outlined in red below have wires attached to them.  Those aren't terminals, they're just the screws that hold the switches together--they have no electrical purpose.  That's a big reason the dial isn't working.  So remove the two wires from the screws circled in red, and carefully tighten those screws.

Next post will explain what wires go where on the dial.
= DARRIN =



bingster

#10
Alright, let's go nice and slow with the dial, because it's a very tricky part of the phone.  One wire in the wrong place can disable the whole phone (as you've found out). 

There are two important things to remember about connecting wires to a dial:  1) Only the five marked terminal screws are ever used to connect wires to, and 2) Some terminals can have more than one wire connected under them.  I've made a picture (below) that shows the terminal screws that are used on the dial.  No other screws are used for connecting wires.

Let's start with the bottom (BK) terminal and work around the terminals in a clockwise direction.:

BK.  The condenser, which is the long, ugly, metal tube with four wires coming out of it, has a black wire among the four.  That black wire is connected to the BK terminal on the dial.  The black wire coming from the handset cord is ALSO connected to the BK terminal.

Y.  The brown & yellow wire from the hookswitch (the switches under the handset plungers) is connected to the Y terminal.

R.  A short grey & red wire connects to the R terminal on the dial.  The other end connects to the L1 terminal on the induction coil (the "U" shaped thingy with a coil inside the "U").

BB.  The brown & blue wire from the hookswitch is connected to the BB terminal.

W.  The white wire from the handset cord is connected to the W terminal.




Next post, we'll tackle the remainder of the induction coil terminals, and the little terminal board beside the coil.
= DARRIN =



Sargeguy

Wow.  Those pictures are great.  My eyes are going, so it was tough picking out those letters-I wish I'd had your diagram of the dial yesterday to work from. 

I had the dial wired that way to begin with (I am glad to know I can read a wiring diagram after all!!!) but got no dial tone, which is when I started experimenting.  I have switched it back to the correct configuration and still nothing.  Let me see if I reversed the service. 

TRIVIA QUESTION:  Which colors did Ma Bell use for the tip and the ring in 1928? Hint: it was not green and red

Thanks!
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

bingster

#12
No problem Sargeguy.  Now that you've got the dial wired correctly, let's move on to the coil and the little terminal board, just to be sure everything is okay.  A quick note about the four wires coming from the condenser:  The wires are black, grey, red, and yellow.  Due to aging, they often just look like black and three shades of brown, so be careful moving them--they can be hard to tell apart. 


Starting with the GN terminal of the coil and working clockwise:

GN.  The green wire from the hookswitch connects to GN.

R.  The red wire from the handset cord connects to R.

L2/Y.  The yellow wire from the hookswitch AND the yellow wire from the condenser AND the red wire from the mounting cord all connect to L2/Y.

L1.  The grey & red wire from the dial AND the green wire from the mounting cord both connect to L1.

C.  The red wire from the condenser connects to C.



Now the little terminal board:

K.  The grey wire from the condenser AND the red wire from the ringer both connect to K.

GND.  The yellow wire from the mounting cord AND the black wire from the ringer both connect to GND.




If you get everything hooked up as shown, things should be operating properly.  If they're still not, then we'll need to explore a few other options, such as the dial's hub retainer possibly being reversed, or broken/shorted wires in one or both cords.
= DARRIN =



Sargeguy

Hello

Thanks again for the pictures, they are very helpful.  I have the phone wired as indicated and still no dial tone. 

The phone was functional prior to my restoration/destruction although there was too much sidetone and lots of noise on the line. 

I think I must have messed up the dial!

Greg 
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

benhutcherson

Do you get a dial tone if you attempt to dial a number?