AE 21 and Northern Electric subset almost there!

[tig1]

Hi, first time poster. Usually i restore tube radios but love older technology in general. I've been following this thread,http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8723.0, and used this wiring scheme. It all works but, it rings when i dial and hang up or pickup.
I tried moving either side of the ringer wires and by moving the one side around there is only one other spot where it rings , but rings weak. Other than that it's perfect. Moving the other side around nothing better but i have one spot left to try. Can the caps being bad cause this? I'm using the originals in the can. I did gets readings from them but not sure what they're both supposed to be.I figured they must be decent due to everything working pretty well.
I'm almost to the point of letting it ring when i dial.

[NorthernElectric]

It all works but, it rings when i dial and hang up or pickup.

This is likely caused by lack of ringer bias.  Either you have an unbiased ringer or you have a biased ringer but need to tighten up the bias spring a bit.  Please post some photos of the ringer.

[G-Man]

You haven't provided us with the model number of the Northern Electric subset nor  photos, so we don't know what you are trying to connect but Northern Electric may be correct that it is a biasing problem.  However, if you really do have a deskstand like the one shown in the other thread, reread my original response:

"Your ringer box and telephone set was  not intended  for use on standard loop dialing lines.
Notice that the dial is connected to ground through the switchook, with the other side going to both sides of the line through the center tap of the ringer coils.
As with a couple of other instruments that have surfaced on the list lately, yours was used on a composite/simplex dialing line that allowed for both magneto and automatic signaling.
Rural telephone companies located mostly in Canada were the primary users of these types of sets."

[tig1]

Sorry, it's an N500CG subset. And it's the same deskset as the other thread. Looks a little messy but i was testing.     The way i have it wired now is the ringer going to ground, and that gives me the tired ring. And i noticed there's always current going through one side of the ringer this way. Also after doing some research, i noticed there is no bias spring. Is there supposed to be?

[G-Man]

This subset was intended to be used with magneto instead of the standard common battery telephone line that you have connnected it to.

Consequently, the ringer does not have a bias spring to prevent "tinkling" during dialing or switchook operation.

This is probably further exacerbated by the ringer being connected to ground instead of across the line with a dc blocking capacitor connected in series.

As with a lot of telephone gear, it could probably be hacked to provide some degree of service even though it was not designed for this type of service.   

[NorthernElectric]

As G-man stated the ringer in your subset never had a bias spring.  If you manage to get this subset working satisfactorily in all other respects, you can add a bias spring by swapping the coil assembly for one from a common B1A ringer, as I have done with the ringer in my N515H subset.  There were biased ringers of this style made, but apparently they are not very common.

I went a different route with this subset.  Mine was missing some of the guts when I bought it, but that was fine because I bought it intending to install the 425 series network (from a 500 set) for use with a D1. 

[tig1]

Thanks a lot! So i wired it as the other thread indicated, not to ground. And i was able to spin the bells,they're not concentric,who knew?! , so the tinkling doesn't sound but ringing works fine. Then because i couldn't leave well enough alone i wired the button on the side so if you hold it in and turn the crank, the bells ring.     So far no ill effects and everything works fine. I included an updated schematic for the changes i made. Thanks again, i hope this helps someone out. Keepem ringin!! 

[tig1]

Ok, trying to add a pic but it keeps saying error. It's smaller then 800x600 and only 154 kb. What's up?

EDIT: It worked!!  Had to change it to a PNG??

[AE_Collector]

Unsolvable (apparently)  picture posting security problem.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=14032.0

Terry

[G-Man]

For the sake of clarification of those who come across this thread in the future, how and what did you end up connecting?

Originally you posted that you were connecting a Northern Electric N500CG magneto subset with a 104A local battery induction coil, to an A.E. 21 deskstand for use on a common battery (POTS) telephone line.

However, in your last post, you showed us a schematic morphing a Western Electric 634 subset and 101A common battery induction coil, with the A.E. type-21 and N.E.Co. N500CG magneto and call-button.

If someone were to come across this thread wanting to use it a guide for connecting similar equipment, then I am certain they would end up confused, so if possible, please elucidate us with what combination of equipment and induction coils that you ultimately came up with.
Thanks!

[tig1]

Sorry, i just used what came inside the N500CG and wired it like the included schematic. I didn't mean to infer i was using those parts, just copying the wiring diagram.
The coil has; IND 104A
the magneto has; 41BN   =57
and the ringer has; BIN  5-14-57.

[G-Man]

No need to apologize, if it worked out ok for you then that's fine! But others may not be as successful since the two induction coils are totally different and do not have the same terminal markings. For their benefit, I am attaching a drawing that shows their differences.

[tig1]

Ya, i didn't use the markings on the coils at all. I just ohmed it out so i knew how the coils were wired and wired the circuit accordingly. I can definitely see the confusion though.

[G-Man]

The electrical characteristics of the two coils are different since they were never intended to be used cross-purposed. The schematic diagram of the two induction coils shows that the windings are wound very different.

Back in the day when only physical telephone lines were in use, there was a very distinct possibility that unacceptable results would have been encountered. Today however, with use on shorter loops or via internet based telephony, it may not make any noticeable difference to the user and perhaps, only slight degradation to the person on the receiving end.

But in this case, all's well that ends well!

[tig1]

I didn't try wiring the coils any other way. Maybe i just got lucky?!