Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Switching => VOIP, Asterisk, C*NET, NPSTN, XLink, etc => Topic started by: Konrad on January 07, 2009, 12:48:00 PM

Title: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Konrad on January 07, 2009, 12:48:00 PM
Short Answer is yes it works with the right bits.  Both can be made to work in a power outage but depending on the outage one or the other or both could be working or not in an emergency.  POTS will work with a no external power required phone as long as the exchange and lines are working.  The techie solutions will run for a short time 24 hours or less before you for need to fire up the generator.

Long technical answer from a former Microsoftie who left the tech world and started a BBQ restaurant 7 years ago.

Comcast does not "officially" support rotary/pulse dialing.  The Comcast Arris TM502G VOIP Router works perfectly with a WE500 and has a built in backup battery.  But if Comcast brings a different black box that does not support pulse you have no right to complain.

Vonage.  Much cheaper than Comcast US, Canada and parts of  Europe are unlimited.  Last time I checked a few years ago Australia was under 4 cents.  Linksys routers had issues including no rotary support.  The new V-Portal VDV21-VD rocks.  The priority routing has been solved for dummies by putting the Vonage V-Portal between the Internet modem and your computer or router.  This means it get first priority for calling.  This could be solved on the Linksys by a techie but caused lots of customer satisfaction issues.  What the V-Portal also does is support rotary dialing  :)  Works perfectly with a WE500.  It also shows the number you are dialing and call logs including missed calls and stuff like the weather.  For power outages you will need to buy an UPS aka Uninterpretable Power Supply and plug the internet modem and V-Portal into the UPS. For the tech ignorant that is not a small light surge protect it's bigger and heavier and when you unplug it from the wall the devices plugged into it keep working.

The V-Portal arrived yesterday and the Comcast months ago at the restaurant.  So this is a real first hand eyewitness account tested with 1950's vintage WE 500's.

Enjoy,

Konrad

PS makes sure if bargain hunting on eBay the V-Portal seller has paid their bill and release the MAC address from their account.  I had an honest seller who did that after I got it.  But if they do not pay off their bill and release it you got nada.

Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: McHeath on January 07, 2009, 09:26:03 PM
Good info to have, thanks!
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: BDM on March 22, 2009, 01:02:45 PM
It may be a little known fact, that most VoiP phone modems do not support pulse dialing (rotary). This is something you must keep in mind if you own, or intend to purchase a rotary telephone. Or, if you intend to switch service from your copper wire (POTS) to VoiP. Since many offer VoiP now, and Comcast has recently stolen the No. #3 position for telephone service. This is going to become a well known fact as time goes on. Of course for 99% of the population, they could care less. But for us die-hard phone fanatics, it's going to hurt!

There are of course several long term solutions. A DTMF pulse converter is one. Many vender's sell these ready to plug in. Another option is purchasing an old PBX system. The different types are to numerous to mention. But a simple search of Ebay will show you what's available. Last, some VoiP modems support pulse dialing. They have a built in DTMF converter. Again, listing which modems have this feature is impossible for me to determine. I use Vonage, and their phone modem MOTOROLA model #VT2142-VD does exactly this.

One issue you may run into with a phone modem that supports pulse dialing is the actual speed at which your telephone is dialing, or "pulsing" per second. The industry standard is 10 pulses per second, plus/minus 2. With my modem, it's critical. Mine seems to only work at 12 pulses per second or better. Which means I must speed up my dials. Also, if I speed them up too fast, it causes my modern cordless phones to ring during dialing. Why? Because the speed is getting close to the magic 20/hz ring frequency. I assume my modern sets are probably "broad" in their ability to recognize multiple frequencies, as I'm not turning my dial speeds up to 20 pulses per second. So, it's a balancing game at best.

These are things we as collectors must consider, if it's important for your phone to dial out. Last, phone modems generally don't supply as high a voltage for ringing. While it's close, it's enough that a phone buff like myself might see a difference. Such as uneven clapper operation. Simply take a voltage reading across your ringer circuits when the phone is ringing to see what it is. 90vac is the norm.

If you have questions, or any further info. Email or PM me. I'll add it, or try and answer your question as best I can.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: reuteler on March 08, 2010, 06:11:28 PM
if you're running your own asterisk server or using a bring your own device (BYOD) voip provider (eg callwithus, vitelity, voip.ms .. there are tons of them) you have a few more options and more flexibility in that you can connect several ATAs (phone modems as you call them) at the same time and if you're running your own asterisk box call between them.   specifically the digium iaxy and the ag-188n support pulse dialing and i've used both with WE 202's and AE 40's w/ no issues.  the former supports only the IAX protocol meaning that you're limited to connecting to mostly asterisk servers.  the ag-188n supports SIP which means pretty much anyone.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Dennis Markham on March 08, 2010, 06:43:36 PM
Reuteler, welcome to the forum.

Thank you for this posting, although admittedly I didn't understand much of it. :-[
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: jsowers on March 08, 2010, 09:26:14 PM
Dennis, an ATA is a device you hook to a network that converts an analog phone line to ethernet so it will work with VoIP. We use them for FAX machines, postage meters and cordless phones to hook them to the IP phone system. I honestly have never tried a rotary phone with one to see if it works.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: AtomicEraTom on March 09, 2010, 04:51:37 AM
I just had a conversation about Voip today.  Luckily, my dad's new store has to have a POTS line, since he sells guns.  So, I will be able to keep my rotaries up and going.  There was a scare since ma likes charter phone service :(
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: reuteler on March 10, 2010, 05:10:22 PM
Quote from: Dennis Markham on March 08, 2010, 06:43:36 PM
Thank you for this posting, although admittedly I didn't understand much of it. :-[

;-)  -- if you'd like a little motivation to get in the know, check this site out.  http://www.ckts.info - it's a distributed voip network for switchers & phone collectors.  nothing helps learning better than a goal!  they have a pretty decent FAQ and i'm sure there are quite a few asterisk people around here who'd be willing to help (me included).
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: JorgeAmely on March 10, 2010, 05:29:58 PM
Can you post some pictures of an Asterisk system in operation so we all can have an idea of what it takes to get one going?
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: reuteler on March 10, 2010, 06:26:28 PM
Quote from: JorgeAmely on March 10, 2010, 05:29:58 PM
Can you post some pictures of an Asterisk system in operation so we all can have an idea of what it takes to get one going?

heh.. it's a software pbx that usually runs on unix (mostly linux).  see here http://www.asterisk.org.  apparently (according to the faq) you can get on ckts.info w/o your own server and just an ATA, but most people wire the ATA to their asterisk box and connect that in.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Dennis Markham on March 10, 2010, 09:10:41 PM
Thank you for that information.  I'll give it a look.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: dsk on March 11, 2010, 05:46:04 AM
How did I get through  to the dangerous unknown world of digitalism ???

When the interests is Old telephones, you are almost climbing a fence to start with these modern things, it may be hard :)
When you actually are here, you have come almost safe and sound over the fence ;D
You are not safe yet :P its a lot of things to do wrong; A friend of mine bought a pulse to tone converter at Sandman, but it didn't dial 6. And of course just send it back, and we send you a new one. Great, but the postage was about $30 from here, and would the new one work ??? He stopped there.
I discovered C*NET, and took the chance and got myselves an ATA and a pair of  free telephone numbers. They even helped me  to get a SmartT1 box converting pulse to tone. Not very expensive so far.
8) But dangerous 8)  I was starting to like this.
I bought a pair of Dialgizmo's they converts pulse to tone and may be used on regular and reverse dials, and yes they are working well if your dial shorts the line when turning the dial, you may even dial * and #. :D
Only 2 lines  :-\ and not able to connect to different systems :'(
I need an advanced PABX,  :) I had played with a few simple ones from Ericksson and Sun Moon Star, but it didn't cope with my needs, so I got lucky :D and got mayselves an really old Panasonic 616 PABX at eBay for a little more than the P&P.
This one understands rotary and tone, but converts to tone, I may dial out/receive on my old CO line, 2 free C*NET lines skype via an skypebox, and my mobile via my last hightech box an XLINK BT from EBAY.  http://www.myxlink.com
(This box may be used as a skype-box too.) It understands rotary dial! :D

Actually I dislike Skype, because I need to have the PC running to receive calls >:(, but so many others uses skype.

Conclusion
The Panasonic PABX's are reliable and solves the most of the problems ;D, gives a real ringing, and my be connected to almost whatever you have of lines.
If you like to use it and keep your bills low, the C*NET may be to worth considering ;). Putting up an Analog Telephone Adapter like Linksys PAP2T with a Dialgizmo you may adjust the ringer frequency to use your old party line telephone.  The Xlink to your mobile and/or Skype may be a step in right direction, bu it is more than expensive  :( if you cant get it to a redused price.

So come on :P, PM me with your skype id and proper time for calling (I'm in Norway), and I may call you from one old telephones, and you may hear the speech quality.
Old telephone - PABX-Skype telbox-PC-(Internet)- and whatever you have in the other end.

Regards :)
dsk

(Dag S Karlsen)
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: JayKriz on March 18, 2010, 12:41:51 AM
My aunt is planning to get connection with it. Thanks for that information.  Like Dennis I will give a look to theat software pbx which you called it as Asterisk system. Business Process Automation (http://www.inin.com/ProductSolutions/Pages/CBPA.aspx)
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: gpo706 on June 20, 2010, 03:12:38 AM
Sorry to keep banging on about them, but the simplest answer is.......

A Pana PBX, plug anything into it, and it converts to tone for your line, easy peasy!

Even works on my darn videophones!
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Dan/Panther on June 20, 2010, 12:10:55 PM
Reuteler;
Welcome to our forum.


Just curious here, If you have a dial up modem for your computer, cann it be ujsed as a POTS line, It has a standard phone jack ?

D/P
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: bellsystemproperty on June 20, 2010, 05:38:22 PM
The Grandstream HT502 supports pulse dialing. You you can buy them cheap, unlocked, and use them with any voip provider you want. http://tinyurl.com/32hlhea (http://tinyurl.com/32hlhea)
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: gpo706 on August 05, 2010, 07:52:46 PM
Dag / DSK - just got one of these ATA things and can call C-NET on my linesmans butt, but only if its on DTMF (wont break dial tone on rotary) through my Pana 616.

I have chatted to a bloke through C-NET called Ian Jolly who is allocating/hosting my C-Net service, so no doubt will get him to talk me through it.

That X-Link thingy - I now have the website so can dig about a bit, but couldn't find anything on e-bayuk for it.

Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: dsk on August 20, 2010, 05:12:07 PM
Hi long holiday has ended, and I'm back  ;D
My Panasonic 616 was set up to send pulses as default, but changing this to tone, it converts perfect. (Parameter 04 on mine)



Regarding the X-link, it is not very trustable, and you need to locate your mobile quite near to the box.  On the other hand, it may understand pulses, and be used on skype (through USB) too.


dsk
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: trainman on October 30, 2010, 06:14:34 PM
Why not keep a basic landline (no features-no long distance) for the rotaries? sounds easier? use it for local calls. give the # to your frinds as an alternate #.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: djtownsend on April 24, 2011, 11:15:17 AM
I don't have a POTS line because I don't want to pay for it.  Hey, money is money and times are tough.  I have Wide Open West as my carrier and have VOIP coming into my house so in addition to refurbishing phones, I am interested in converting them with a pulse to tone converter.  I have a 500 series wall phone which will be my first guinea pig in which I will install the small pulse to tone to converter that Dennis did a wonderful job in describing the installation of.  I also have the larger pulse to tone converter that I purchased from Old Phone Works for $70.  It works for the most part except for the fact that when I dial out, I have to dial an area code first so I have to dial 1-630-xxx-xxxx.  It is not recognizing the first 1 but recognizes the other digits I dial, even a 1 after the first digit.  I have an email into Old Phone Works about this as I may be doing something wrong in dialing out.

Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Babybearjs on August 27, 2011, 12:08:35 PM
just to add my input. we have Cableone service, and my rotaries work fine on their system. I'm having no problems with my VOIP modem. the only time I run into problems is when I forget to diconnect the master line when working on the wiring and trip the modem. (all the lights start flashing together) I just have to reset the modem and we are good again. I have 6 phones connected and they all ring well! so, for all those people who have Cableone Phone service, the modem will support rotary dial! (reverse compatiblitiy)   John
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 05, 2011, 11:36:51 PM
I also wanted to confirm that pulse dialing works just fine with my Vonage VOIP service. I am able to place and receive calls just fine.  The only thing I noticed is that the phone doesn't ring as loud as it should. I'm guessing that the voltage with VOIP is less than with regular land line service?

I wonder if there is something that could be wired up to the ringer to step up the voltage?

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/P1020547.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/P1020554.jpg)
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: paul-f on November 06, 2011, 01:48:29 AM
Quote from: Marcelo L. on November 05, 2011, 11:36:51 PM
I wonder if there is something that could be wired up to the ringer to step up the voltage?

Here's an example of one such device -- the Viking RG-10A Ring Booster
  http://www.vikingelectronics.com/products/view_product.php?pid=219

They occasionally turn up on ebay at tolerable prices.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 06, 2011, 07:58:20 AM
Quote from: paul-f on November 06, 2011, 01:48:29 AM
Quote from: Marcelo L. on November 05, 2011, 11:36:51 PM
I wonder if there is something that could be wired up to the ringer to step up the voltage?

Here's an example of one such device -- the Viking RG-10A Ring Booster
  http://www.vikingelectronics.com/products/view_product.php?pid=219

They occasionally turn up on ebay at tolerable prices.

Thanks for the suggestion. Now I know that such a device actually exists. I checked on ebay and wow, $152!!!
Has anyone tried wiring in a capacitor to the ringer? I don't know much about how they work; I am under the impression that a capacitor stores energy and steps up voltage. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-VIKING-RG-10A-RING-BOOSTER-RINGS-15-ADDITIONAL-PHONES-TELECOM-DEVICES-/200656342032?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb80ccc10#ht_2153wt_1033 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-VIKING-RG-10A-RING-BOOSTER-RINGS-15-ADDITIONAL-PHONES-TELECOM-DEVICES-/200656342032?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb80ccc10#ht_2153wt_1033)


Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Phonesrfun on November 06, 2011, 11:42:06 AM
If your ringer does not have a capacitor, it should.  A photo of the inside of the box would help.  Providing your ringer has no capacitor, it should be a 1.0 mF capacitor rated at 250 volts, which you should be able to get at Radio Shack, or I can send you one.

By the way, the way it would make the ringer louder is not by stepping up the voltage.  That would be a myth.  The way it would make the ringer louder is to match the impedance of the ringer to the ringing circuit, which I know is a harder thing to understand.

The capacitor also isolates the ringer from the direct current of the phone line.  Depending on the resistance of the ringer, with no capacitor, the ringer would make the phone act like the ringer was keeping the phone off the hook.

I would actually be pretty surprised if there were no capacitor in you ringer box.  Please take a detailed picture inside and lets see what is inside.

Also, have you had the exact phone connected to a POTS line in the past with better results?

Those older ringers do present a larger load when being rung.  If yours does have a capacitor, the only option available might be some tweaking of the ringer itself, such as adjusting the gongs, which are mounted on eccentric holes.

Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 06, 2011, 09:20:59 PM
Quote from: Phonesrfun on November 06, 2011, 11:42:06 AM
If your ringer does not have a capacitor, it should.  A photo of the inside of the box would help.  Providing your ringer has no capacitor, it should be a 1.0 mF capacitor rated at 250 volts, which you should be able to get at Radio Shack, or I can send you one.

By the way, the way it would make the ringer louder is not by stepping up the voltage.  That would be a myth.  The way it would make the ringer louder is to match the impedance of the ringer to the ringing circuit, which I know is a harder thing to understand.

The capacitor also isolates the ringer from the direct current of the phone line.  Depending on the resistance of the ringer, with no capacitor, the ringer would make the phone act like the ringer was keeping the phone off the hook.

I would actually be pretty surprised if there were no capacitor in you ringer box.  Please take a detailed picture inside and lets see what is inside.

Also, have you had the exact phone connected to a POTS line in the past with better results?

Those older ringers do present a larger load when being rung.  If yours does have a capacitor, the only option available might be some tweaking of the ringer itself, such as adjusting the gongs, which are mounted on eccentric holes.

Here are some pictures of the subset I made for my 202. I used the coil and condenser from a 302. The ringer is original to the Kellogg box.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/P1020538.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/P1020539.jpg)
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Phonesrfun on November 06, 2011, 09:34:06 PM
Nice job on wiring the subset.  Your subset already contains a capacitor, its just a matter of whether that 302 capacitir is properly matched to the old ringer

Besides the VoIP service, have you had that ringer/box connected to a POTS line?  In other words, has it ever had the volume you are looking for?

The older ringer probably has a lower resistance /impedance than the ringer from a 302.  You could try a test.  substitute the ringer in the box with one from a 302 just for the purpose of seeing if that ringer gives you ample ringing from your Vonage ATA.

If the ringer in the box  has markings on the outside of the coil jacket, that sometimes will help determining the resistance.  You may need to use a 1mF capacitor instead of the .5mF that is in the 302 capacitor in order to get the ringing volume up with that particular ringer
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 06, 2011, 11:33:01 PM
Quote from: Phonesrfun on November 06, 2011, 09:34:06 PM
Nice job on wiring the subset.  Your subset already contains a capacitor, its just a matter of whether that 302 capacitir is properly matched to the old ringer

Besides the VoIP service, have you had that ringer/box connected to a POTS line?  In other words, has it ever had the volume you are looking for?

The older ringer probably has a lower resistance /impedance than the ringer from a 302.  You could try a test.  substitute the ringer in the box with one from a 302 just for the purpose of seeing if that ringer gives you ample ringing from your Vonage ATA.

If the ringer in the box  has markings on the outside of the coil jacket, that sometimes will help determining the resistance.  You may need to use a 1mF capacitor instead of the .5mF that is in the 302 capacitor in order to get the ringing volume up with that particular ringer


Bill, thanks for the compliment. No I haven't had a chance to connect this setup to a POTS line.

Prior disassembling the 302, I did have it connected to my VOIP service. It also did not ring as loud as it should, but it sounded consistent and smooth. The ringer on my subset is not; it sounds kind of uneven (if that makes sense). I tried adjusting the bells and it helped a little, but still too quiet.

Here's a close up on my ringer. Maybe it's missing something?

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/ringer1.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/ringer2.jpg)

The only numbers I was able to make out are 25 and 800.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Phonesrfun on November 07, 2011, 12:17:21 AM
Sorry to say, but I don't think your problem has anything to do with Vonage or your ATA.  It appears that your ringer is broken.

It appears to be missing the pivot needle point and seat that allows the clapper to pivot back and forth smoothly.

The clapper mechanism on yours is just flopping around.   You can see from the pictures below of a similar ringer how the clapper mechanism is pivoted with a pointed screw that allows the clapper mechanism to rock freely and smoothly back and forth, and how the clapper mechanism aligns with the poles of the coils.


Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 07, 2011, 09:22:01 AM
Bill, I was afraid of that. Do you think it would be easier to source the missing parts or a whole ringer assembly?
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Bill on November 07, 2011, 11:57:04 AM
Marcelo L wrote
QuoteDo you think it would be easier to source the missing parts or a whole ringer assembly?

Marcelo -

I think it should be quite easy to get a screw of the appropriate thread and length, and either file or grind a point on it.

I don't know what the thread should be (perhaps someone here does?), but you can just take your ringer to the hardware store and try out a bunch of screws until you find one that screws in easily. The length is not critical, since you will also buy a nut to use as the stop-nut shown in Bill Guerts' picture. Take it home, put a point on it, screw it in until it loosely sets into the dimple in the clapper, tighten up the stopnut to keep it from turning, and you should be good to go.

Am I missing something? If not, this should be much easier, cheaper, and quicker than finding a whole new ringer.

Bill
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Babybearjs on November 07, 2011, 03:02:00 PM
I'm having no problems with my unit. CableOne modem are reverse compatible. we have BOTH touch tone and rotary... the brand modem we have is an ARRIS, I'm not sure of the model number. but we are not having any issues...
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 07, 2011, 04:59:19 PM
Quote from: Bill on November 07, 2011, 11:57:04 AM
Marcelo L wrote
QuoteDo you think it would be easier to source the missing parts or a whole ringer assembly?

Marcelo -

I think it should be quite easy to get a screw of the appropriate thread and length, and either file or grind a point on it.

I don't know what the thread should be (perhaps someone here does?), but you can just take your ringer to the hardware store and try out a bunch of screws until you find one that screws in easily. The length is not critical, since you will also buy a nut to use as the stop-nut shown in Bill Guerts' picture. Take it home, put a point on it, screw it in until it loosely sets into the dimple in the clapper, tighten up the stopnut to keep it from turning, and you should be good to go.

Am I missing something? If not, this should be much easier, cheaper, and quicker than finding a whole new ringer.

Bill

Bill, It looks like a pretty small screw. If it's a 6/32, I have a ton of them at home, otherwise I'll take a trip to the homedepot. Thanks

Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 07, 2011, 08:20:31 PM
Quote from: Marcelo L. on November 07, 2011, 04:59:19 PM
Quote from: Bill on November 07, 2011, 11:57:04 AM
Marcelo L wrote
QuoteDo you think it would be easier to source the missing parts or a whole ringer assembly?

Marcelo -

I think it should be quite easy to get a screw of the appropriate thread and length, and either file or grind a point on it.

I don't know what the thread should be (perhaps someone here does?), but you can just take your ringer to the hardware store and try out a bunch of screws until you find one that screws in easily. The length is not critical, since you will also buy a nut to use as the stop-nut shown in Bill Guerts' picture. Take it home, put a point on it, screw it in until it loosely sets into the dimple in the clapper, tighten up the stopnut to keep it from turning, and you should be good to go.

Am I missing something? If not, this should be much easier, cheaper, and quicker than finding a whole new ringer.

Bill

Bill, It looks like a pretty small screw. If it's a 6/32, I have a ton of them at home, otherwise I'll take a trip to the homedepot. Thanks



No dice. That screw is tiny. I'll have to get to the hardware store this weekend.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 07, 2011, 08:21:51 PM
Here's a clip of the phone ringing. Sorry for the poor quality audio/visual.

http://youtu.be/qELBVNC96iw (http://youtu.be/qELBVNC96iw)
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Phonesrfun on November 07, 2011, 11:49:37 PM
From the video, it sounds like you got it working.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 08, 2011, 07:37:14 AM
Quote from: Phonesrfun on November 07, 2011, 11:49:37 PM
From the video, it sounds like you got it working.

That's what it sounds like without the pointy screw keeping the clapper aligned. 
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Bill on November 08, 2011, 02:13:31 PM
QuoteNo dice. That screw is tiny. I'll have to get to the hardware store this weekend.

Marcelo -

Yup, smaller than I thought. I just grabbed a 317 oak wall phone I have in the garage, and took a quick look at the screw diameter. Looks like a #4 screw. With any luck, it is a 4-40 - but WE used strange threads at times. Good luck, and please report back.

Bill
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Bill on November 08, 2011, 06:30:16 PM
Even smaller than I thought. I actually unscrewed the screw, and it is smaller than a #4. Maybe a #3? Problem is that the trhead looks pretty coarse, so this may be another WE unusual size, and if so, you won't find it in a hardware store. If you are in a big town, you may find that there is a specialty fastener company nearby. Phoenix area has several Copper State Nut and Bolt stores.

Bill
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Phonesrfun on November 08, 2011, 07:11:06 PM
If you can tell me what brand the subset box originally was, and even the model, I know some people who.....may even have some ringer parts.  Providing, of course that the ringer you have is original to that box.

The ringers of old in some cases were even interchangeable.

Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 08, 2011, 08:20:16 PM
That would be great!

It's a Kellogg and the numbers stamped in to the cabinet are: F2328S

Quote from: Phonesrfun on November 08, 2011, 07:11:06 PM
If you can tell me what brand the subset box originally was, and even the model, I know some people who.....may even have some ringer parts.  Providing, of course that the ringer you have is original to that box.

The ringers of old in some cases were even interchangeable.


Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 08, 2011, 08:21:47 PM
Quote from: Bill on November 08, 2011, 06:30:16 PM
Even smaller than I thought. I actually unscrewed the screw, and it is smaller than a #4. Maybe a #3? Problem is that the trhead looks pretty coarse, so this may be another WE unusual size, and if so, you won't find it in a hardware store. If you are in a big town, you may find that there is a specialty fastener company nearby. Phoenix area has several Copper State Nut and Bolt stores.

Bill

I has no luck at the home depot. Hopefully I can source another ringer...
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Phonesrfun on November 08, 2011, 08:45:55 PM
I won't have an answer until tomorrow night when I can get over to a friend's house and pile through some of his stuff.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 08, 2011, 08:49:10 PM
Quote from: Phonesrfun on November 08, 2011, 08:45:55 PM
I won't have an answer until tomorrow night when I can get over to a friend's house and pile through some of his stuff.

Thanks very much! Do you need any pictures to use as a reference?
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Phonesrfun on November 08, 2011, 11:38:31 PM
Quote from: Marcelo L. on November 08, 2011, 08:49:10 PM
Thanks very much! Do you need any pictures to use as a reference?

It would help.  You took a couple early on in this thread, but if you can do a couple more, the more detail the better.  Kellogg ringers are pretty commonplace, so I am expecting that I can find something for you.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 08, 2011, 11:57:23 PM
Quote from: Phonesrfun on November 08, 2011, 11:38:31 PM
Quote from: Marcelo L. on November 08, 2011, 08:49:10 PM
Thanks very much! Do you need any pictures to use as a reference?

It would help.  You took a couple early on in this thread, but if you can do a couple more, the more detail the better.  Kellogg ringers are pretty commonplace, so I am expecting that I can find something for you.

Hope this helps!  :)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/ringer2.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/P1020483.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/ringer1.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/P1020531.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/P1020482.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/P1020305-1.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/P1020472.jpg)
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Phonesrfun on November 09, 2011, 12:35:14 AM
Very Good!
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Bill on November 09, 2011, 12:29:42 PM
Marcelo -

Sorry that a new screw wasn't the right answer. Rather than discarding it, if this were my unit I would simply drill and tap it to a standard 4-40 thread, and go from there. Authenticity is lost, but I'm not sure anyone would care about such a minor item.

Good luck.

Bill
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Phonesrfun on November 09, 2011, 02:06:15 PM
Before drilling and tapping, please wait until I have a chance to check for a screw tonight.  I'll check back at about 8pm pacific time tonight.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 09, 2011, 02:31:21 PM
Bill, thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to hold off until I hear back from Bill G.

Quote from: Bill on November 09, 2011, 12:29:42 PM
Marcelo -

Sorry that a new screw wasn't the right answer. Rather than discarding it, if this were my unit I would simply drill and tap it to a standard 4-40 thread, and go from there. Authenticity is lost, but I'm not sure anyone would care about such a minor item.

Good luck.

Bill
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 09, 2011, 02:32:17 PM
Quote from: Phonesrfun on November 09, 2011, 02:06:15 PM
Before drilling and tapping, please wait until I have a chance to check for a screw tonight.  I'll check back at about 8pm pacific time tonight.

Bill, I'll wait to do anything before I hear back from you tonight. Thanks
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Phonesrfun on November 10, 2011, 01:00:18 AM
Marcelo:

I found a Kellogg ringer and it works.  the clapper moves freely and the pivot screw and the locking nut are intact.  A little dirty (Barn fresh, as they say), although this has been in the guys cabinet in his basement for a while.

Here are some pictures.  I will PM you with some more particulars.  The PM does not have a way of posting pictures that I am aware of.

Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 10, 2011, 07:55:22 AM
Bill, I'll take the ringer. I have sent you a PM. Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 12, 2011, 07:49:34 PM
Bill, I just checked my mail box and wouldn't you know it; the ringer was sitting there waiting for me.  ;D

Just two days from WA to NY!!! :)

I gotta get dinner started but afterwords I'm going to play with the ringer and see if I can't get it ringing right.

Thanks again!

Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Phonesrfun on November 12, 2011, 09:15:57 PM
Wow, Sometimes the USPS really surprises me!

Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 12, 2011, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: Phonesrfun on November 12, 2011, 09:15:57 PM
Wow, Sometimes the USPS really surprises me!



UPDATE: I just installed the pivot screw from the ringer you sent me, adjusted the bells a bit and she rings beautifully now!  :)

I'll post a video in a bit.

Thanks again!

Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 12, 2011, 10:54:55 PM
Here's a video clip of the repaired ringer. Sorry for the poor sound quality, you will need to turn up your computer speakers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNTpTO6T2_o&feature=feedu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNTpTO6T2_o&feature=feedu)

I'm definitely happy with how it sounds now. The clapper consistently slaps both bells and the sound is even   and stronger than before. It's still quieter than it would be on a POTS line, but a big improvement overall once that pivot screw was installed.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Phonesrfun on November 12, 2011, 11:25:44 PM
It actually sounds real good to me, but it is hard to judge when I'm not there in the room.

Adding Capacitance in parallel for that age of ringer might help.  The value of the capacitor on the yellow and slate leads of the 195A capacitor can from a 302 is 1/2 mF.  This is wired in series with the ringer.  If you were to put another 1/2 mF capacitor rated at 250 volts across the existing capacitor (in parallel with), the total capacitance will double to be 1mF.  The low resistance ringer coils from the old phones work better with the higher capacitance capacitors.

However, by increasing the capacitance, you will increase the ringer equivalance of that ringer (REN).  Depending on how many other phones you have on your Vonage ATA, that dould drag down the total ringing and other phones on the line may not ring as loudly.

Legacy central offices from the phone company would allow a total REN of 5.  A standard Western Electric 500 has a REN of 1.0  The ringer you currently have as it is currently configured is probably 1.5 or higher.  By putting extra capacitance in parallel, it may make the ringer coils more responsive, but probably would make the REN value of that ringer go over a 2.0.

I do not know what the output of a Vonage ATA is when it comes to ringing oomph.  maybe it's 5.  I just don't know.  It may bear some experimentation to see.

Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 12, 2011, 11:39:27 PM
Bill,

I was originally looking at something like this:

Viking RG-10A Ring Booster
http://www.vikingelectronics.com/products/view_product.php?pid=219 (http://www.vikingelectronics.com/products/view_product.php?pid=219)

Would something like that work?

The volume output I'm getting right now really isn't bad and I could definitely live with it since I added that pivot screw, but it would be nice to get it to ring at full strength.

To answer your question; I have two phones hooked up to my Vonage service. The first phone is my Panasonic Cordless (which has the ringer turned off) that is used solely for it's caller ID, cordless capability and answering machine.  The second phone is the 202 with the Kellogg subset; this is the only phone that rings in my house.  
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Phonesrfun on November 13, 2011, 01:18:53 AM
I really don't think you will gain anything from buying a booster since you are not loading the line down with lots of phones.  That booster is made to be used where you need many (more than 5) phones to ring at al time on a regular line.  the Vonage ATA should be capable of handling your load just fine.

I think the problem is in the ringer itself.  All ringers are not the same.  Your ringer is a low resistance non-biased ringer that came from a magneto set which used a local battery circuit and a magneto to ring.  Modern ringers are higher in impedance, and biasing helps them be louder too.  A biased ringer is one that has a mechanical tensioning spring that holds the armature and clapper slightly to one side.  Not only does biasing help the ringing process a bit on a common battery circuit, but it helps to avoid bell tinkle while dialing.

You have done a great job of converting the subset from a magneto configuration to a common battery more modern subset.  The style of that particular ringer is just such that you can only get so much out of it.

I would try doubling the capacitance before doing anything else.  If you do try the booster, I would make sure I could return it if it doesn't work out.

Another thing you could do to make sure the problem is not in the power output from the Vonage ATA is to take your phone, subset and all, and go to a friend's house who has a standard phone company provided POTS line and see how it behaves that way.

By the way, I have several phones connected to my Vonage ATA and I have no problem with any ringing at all.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Marcelo L. on December 04, 2011, 04:56:21 PM
Here's a better clip of my setup. The sound quality in the other clip did not do it justice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PRWIKjnrM4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PRWIKjnrM4)
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: curtjr4 on December 27, 2011, 02:17:20 PM
Hey there everybody,

I am somewhat stuck right now. I have a model 554 hanging on my wall, and I am looking at getting a model 500 as well. If I did this, would it be possible to hook up the DialGizmo into my AT&T UVerse modem and have it convert multiple phones? Something like this (excuse my awful art. Gotta love MSPaint)...
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: MrKenmore on January 04, 2012, 12:36:15 PM
Hi everyone!  This is my first post.  I am so happy to discover other vintage phone enthusiasts. 

I have VOIP using Viatalk.  I have a big variety of WE phones throughout the house.  I have all the phones go through a Mitel Smart-1 dialer.  You can program the unit to do many things.  When the phone goes off hook, the Mitel listens for the touch tone or rotary pulse dialing.  Once it hears what it needs, it then translates this to touch tone and sends it (redials it) to the VOIP adapter.  With the unit, you can also program speed dials.  For example, 1122 or *22 is programmed speed dial.  This makes like VERY easy with the rotaries. 

I have all my ringers disconnected with the exception of a 554, trimline wall mount and a Sculptura.  The VOIP adapter rings the three phones without any problems.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: lp154002 on January 23, 2012, 09:39:06 PM
Hi guys. My first post, so please be gentle  ;D

I'm a CLEC engineer, so I get free VoIP service from my company. One of the ATAs we utilize even supports pulse dialing--an Innomedia 6328. The problem, of course, is the lack of # and *. I'm on a lot of conference calls throughout the week, and # is vital to entering bridge IDs and joining calls in progress.

I ended up buying a Dialgizmo to get around this, but I'm running into a problem. The two rotary phones that I use on a regular basis, a plain WE500C/D and a WE50A1 (a speaker/conference phone with a Trimline handset) do not work with the Dialgizmo for # and *. To activate # on a Dialgizmo, you pull a 1 but leave your finger at the fingerstop for two seconds, then release. When I do this on either of the WECo phones, it still just dials "1". My AE21 works perfectly with the DG.

The problem appears to be that the WECo dials are not on the line until they start pulsing, so the Dialgizmo has no idea how long I have held the dial down. I found this with the Trimline handset as I can dial a digit and hold at the fingerstop all day; it won't break dial tone until I release. I've searched the forum and found other references to that.

I've built the stand-alone DTMF pad here (http://atcaonline.com/ttpad.html) and it works great, but as it requires modifying the wiring on the 500's network, I'd rather not have to settle for that--the phone won't get dial tone unless the TT pad is always wired to it.

The Rotatone looks good, but I'd like to have one solution that I can plug straight into the ATA then feed the house wiring.

Does anyone have any suggestions for making a WECo dial behave like an AE dial? I'd rather not have to request a refund for a device that I could make work with a little tinkering.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Grumpy99705 on January 23, 2012, 11:38:03 PM
My teleco just went digital a couple years ago. they are the major cable tv provider in the area, as well as internet and were trying to get off of leashed lines.
So many miles of fiber later, my TV, internet, and phone all come in on the same coax.
They gave me an Arris Touchstone telephony modem.
I asked the installer if it would accept pulse dialing, he had no clue.
A call to customer support got the same answer.
So I plugged in my Kellogg 1000 and called customer support back
worked like a champ, and shocked the hell outta the service guys.
But at least they know now
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: stub on January 24, 2012, 05:19:35 AM
lp154002,
               Hi and welcome to the CRP Forum. I used the DTMF keypad also but didn't want to modify my phones network either. You can wire the keypad in between the ATA and the phone . Just put it in series with one side of the line in wire, won't matter which color, from ATA going to the telephone. The way you have your phone now shows it will work. This just keeps you from having to change wires on the network of your phone. I put a RJ11 surface mount mod. jack on mine and a RJ11 plug on a pig tail for line in wire. Now I can add any phone with a mod. plug on it .
               I hooked this one on a WE 500 C/D   5-53 phone tonight and it works just fine. Here's the pic of mine. hope this helps.  stub
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: lp154002 on January 25, 2012, 12:02:05 PM
Quote from: stub on January 24, 2012, 05:19:35 AM
lp154002,
                Hi and welcome to the CRP Forum. I used the DTMF keypad also but didn't want to modify my phones network either. You can wire the keypad in between the ATA and the phone . Just put it in series with the line wire, won't matter which color, from ATA going to the telephone. The way you have your phone now shows it will work. This just keeps you from having to change wires on the network of your phone. I put a RJ11 surface mount mod. jack on mine and a RJ11 plug on a pig tail for line in wire. Now I can add any phone with a mod. plug on it .
                I hooked this one on a WE 500 C/D   5-53 phone tonight and it works just fine. Here's the pic of mine. hope this helps.  stub

stub,

While this is a pretty simple design, doesn't it interfere with the operation of the hookswitch? When I originally built the pad, I had hooked it directly to L1 and L2 on the 500's network (with no other changes) and I could no longer hang up because the pad was holding the line open. Wouldn't your design cause the same issue, or am I missing something?

I appreciate the reply! :)
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: stub on January 25, 2012, 01:04:06 PM
lp154002,
               Put pad across L 2 only. Take L 2 into one side of the pad and take pad out to L2 of the phone line in.With pad across L1 and L2 both, it will hold the line open.  stub
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: stub on January 25, 2012, 01:45:00 PM
lp154002,
               Here's how I did mine.  Hope  this helps.  stub
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: lp154002 on January 25, 2012, 03:09:31 PM
Ah, I get it! I guess I missed your original line about being in series on one side only. I'll throw this together tonight and see what happens.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: stub on January 26, 2012, 12:59:22 PM
lp154002 ,
                Did you get it to work?  stub
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: lp154002 on January 29, 2012, 01:51:16 PM
Quote from: stub on January 26, 2012, 12:59:22 PM
lp154002 ,
                Did you get it to work?  stub

Sorry for the late reply--work has been pretty busy lately. I did indeed get it to work! I was having some polarity issues in the beginning, but I got them sorted out.

Thank you so much for your help.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: AE_Collector on January 29, 2012, 07:29:28 PM
Quote from: curtjr4 on December 27, 2011, 02:17:20 PM
Hey there everybody,

I have a model 554 hanging on my wall, and I am looking at getting a model 500 as well. If I did this, would it be possible to hook up the DialGizmo into my AT&T UVerse modem and have it convert multiple phones?

I'm not certain what a "Dial Gizmo" is but I'm assuming it converts dial pulses into DTMF touch tones? If so, I can't imagine why every phone and or phone jack in your house can't go through the Dial Gizmo heading for your Uverse modem. Obviously if one phone were dialing and someone picked up the other extension it would mess up the dial pulses but that happens with dial pulse phones on CO based phone lines as well.

Terry
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: rtp129495 on May 17, 2012, 01:47:09 PM
I have one of these and I use it with my verizon home phone connect for my second number. It works really well. I still have POTS line, but I wanted a number to call the other phones in the interim till i get a 1a2key OR a PBX. I recommend it, it can be hooked in and many phones use it! Put it at the ATA and plug the line into it. it will work!
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: poplar1 on September 26, 2013, 10:32:54 AM
Quote from: lp154002 on January 23, 2012, 09:39:06 PM
Hi guys. My first post, so please be gentle  ;D

I'm a CLEC engineer, so I get free VoIP service from my company. One of the ATAs we utilize even supports pulse dialing--an Innomedia 6328. The problem, of course, is the lack of # and *. I'm on a lot of conference calls throughout the week, and # is vital to entering bridge IDs and joining calls in progress.

I ended up buying a Dialgizmo to get around this, but I'm running into a problem. The two rotary phones that I use on a regular basis, a plain WE500C/D and a WE50A1 (a speaker/conference phone with a Trimline handset) do not work with the Dialgizmo for # and *. To activate # on a Dialgizmo, you pull a 1 but leave your finger at the fingerstop for two seconds, then release. When I do this on either of the WECo phones, it still just dials "1". My AE21 works perfectly with the DG.
The problem appears to be that the WECo dials are not on the line until they start pulsing, so the Dialgizmo has no idea how long I have held the dial down. I found this with the Trimline handset as I can dial a digit and hold at the fingerstop all day; it won't break dial tone until I release. I've searched the forum and found other references to that.

I've built the stand-alone DTMF pad here (http://atcaonline.com/ttpad.html) and it works great, but as it requires modifying the wiring on the 500's network, I'd rather not have to settle for that--the phone won't get dial tone unless the TT pad is always wired to it.

The Rotatone looks good, but I'd like to have one solution that I can plug straight into the ATA then feed the house wiring.

Does anyone have any suggestions for making a WECo dial behave like an AE dial? I'd rather not have to request a refund for a device that I could make work with a little tinkering.

Thanks!

I think it's dsk who suggested rewiring a WE 500 set by using the off-normal contacts (white dial leads) to short the entire phone (as in AE 40s and WE 302s) rather than just the receiver. The 10A dial on a Trimline doesn't have the additional contacts since *most* people don't try to listen and dial at the same time.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: dsk on September 26, 2013, 11:15:00 AM
Quote from: poplar1 on September 26, 2013, 10:32:54 AM
I think it's dsk who suggested rewiring a WE 500 set by using the off-normal contacts (white dial leads) to short the entire phone (as in AE 40s and WE 302s) rather than just the receiver. The 10A dial on a Trimline doesn't have the additional contacts since *most* people don't try to listen and dial at the same time.

Yes that's right. My guess are still; we need to increase the voltage difference between just off-hook and rotated dial in hold position. The Trimline doesn't have any anything making it possible to sense that. Now its time for experimenting, how to solve that without ruining the phone.
At this moment I have no solution.

dsk
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Babybearjs on November 19, 2016, 12:36:06 AM
for anyone who is interested, Arris has a Cable Modem thats reverse compatable and it works pretty good, its the Arris TG-862G Cable modem. Go to www.arris.com for details.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: markosjal on November 19, 2016, 02:46:34 PM
do you mean the Arris modem accepts Pulse dialing?

I know with asterisk i use the UTStarcom IAN-02ex on rotar phones and it works
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: markosjal on January 17, 2018, 04:57:39 PM
Looking at this page.....
https://atcaonline.com/ttpad.html

What about TT pads that have all wires? It says thge "F" corresponds to green wire but what if the TT pad has all wires and no terminals?

Author is quick to recommend cutting of "all" other wires but I suspect on many tt pads that terminal corresponds to a wire.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: HarrySmith on January 17, 2018, 06:01:49 PM
I have used that method on a few phones, it works great. He does have a list of recommended pads, I would guess not all would work for this.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: TelePlay on January 17, 2018, 06:35:48 PM
He states the following:

        "Make sure the pad you use has a diode bridge (polarity guard) so your finished phone won't be polarity sensitive.  Figs. 1a-1c are recommended units.

        Figs. 1a and 1b are pads from Premier 2500 phones, made by North Supply.

        Fig. 1c is an ITT #42 pad (my favorite).

        You can use a Western Electric #72 pad, but I've been told they have a high failure rate due to poor switch contacts."

When I made mine, I didn't start until I found a couple of ITT #42s and never had a problem after construction. I didn't try to re-invent his work or to bench test other TT dial pads. Just went with what he recommended and very happy with the results, using Stub's generic mod to fit all phones.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: stub on January 17, 2018, 07:00:14 PM
I used all the tt pads that Stan listed and all worked great , I use mostly the Premier 2500 phones, made by North Supply just because I had a bunch on hand from busted phones. The ringer control also works great too on the LB phones !

https://atcaonline.com/ringercontrol.html
( dead link 01-07-22 )

stub
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: markosjal on January 17, 2018, 11:38:35 PM
Quote from: markosjal on January 17, 2018, 04:57:39 PM
Looking at this page.....
https://atcaonline.com/ttpad.html

What about TT pads that have all wires? It says thge "F" corresponds to green wire but what if the TT pad has all wires and no terminals?

Author is quick to recommend cutting of "all" other wires but I suspect on many tt pads that terminal corresponds to a wire.

How did this end up under this thread?? It was posted under its own topic and has nothing to do with VoIP rather Dtmf pads
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: markosjal on March 23, 2018, 02:52:12 AM
Quote from: Konrad on January 07, 2009, 12:48:00 PM
(snip)
...Vonage.  Much cheaper than Comcast US, Canada and parts of  Europe are unlimited.  Last time I checked a few years ago Australia was under 4 cents. ...(Snip)

If you want Australia calling, check out www.siptalk.com.au if you go to https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/107 and have a look around for "siptalk"(telecube is the same company) you can get AU DIDs for $0.55 AUD per month.

You can also choose to pay per call or per minute.

I have used this service for inbound and outbound calls for nearly six months now. Just last month I recharged the account with my second $10.00 AUD . I do admit however I do not call Australia much they usually call me (in the middle of the night) .

I must also say the call quality is STUNNING (No VoIP pun Intended) and far superior to most any AU termination and origination service I previously used. This is amazing considering  it is 60ms from my broadband connection in Mexico to my PBX in a data center in Arizona then another 170ms to siptalk for a total of 230+ms. Previously I was paying $5 USD to $6 USD per AU DID per month. I have now cut that down to a small fraction of the cost and have better call quality than ever to and from Australia. I was also able to get a Cairns DID which I was unable to get anywhere else before I found them.

I did have to have a friend in Austrailia authenticate the account with an Australian mobile number.

I am also able to pay with Paypal and I believe they will accept a USA Debit or Credit card. 

Mark
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: dsk on March 23, 2018, 10:27:06 AM
Nice
Thank you!

dsk
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: twocvbloke on March 24, 2018, 02:48:46 PM
This video popped up today showing the difference between copper and FIOS, mostly with dialup aspects, but also with an ITT 500 being used to dial out and receive... :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImEYnuBn1oI
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: stub on May 31, 2018, 12:29:47 AM
Quote from: lp154002 on January 23, 2012, 09:39:06 PM
Hi guys. My first post, so please be gentle  ;D

I'm a CLEC engineer, so I get free VoIP service from my company. One of the ATAs we utilize even supports pulse dialing--an Innomedia 6328. The problem, of course, is the lack of # and *. I'm on a lot of conference calls throughout the week, and # is vital to entering bridge IDs and joining calls in progress.

I ended up buying a Dialgizmo to get around this, but I'm running into a problem. The two rotary phones that I use on a regular basis, a plain WE500C/D and a WE50A1 (a speaker/conference phone with a Trimline handset) do not work with the Dialgizmo for # and *. To activate # on a Dialgizmo, you pull a 1 but leave your finger at the fingerstop for two seconds, then release. When I do this on either of the WECo phones, it still just dials "1". My AE21 works perfectly with the DG.

The problem appears to be that the WECo dials are not on the line until they start pulsing, so the Dialgizmo has no idea how long I have held the dial down. I found this with the Trimline handset as I can dial a digit and hold at the fingerstop all day; it won't break dial tone until I release. I've searched the forum and found other references to that.

I've built the stand-alone DTMF pad here (http://atcaonline.com/ttpad.html) and it works great, but as it requires modifying the wiring on the 500's network, I'd rather not have to settle for that--the phone won't get dial tone unless the TT pad is always wired to it.

The Rotatone looks good, but I'd like to have one solution that I can plug straight into the ATA then feed the house wiring.

Does anyone have any suggestions for making a WECo dial behave like an AE dial? I'd rather not have to request a refund for a device that I could make work with a little tinkering.

Thanks!
markosjal ,  I was trying to get lp154002's touch pad problem fixed and I forgot to quote it in my reply .  stub
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: dc4code on May 31, 2018, 02:37:50 AM
I REALLY hate that pulse-to-tone converters you hear the dtmf tones on the phone!! If they made one where all you here is the pulse dialing and you don't here the DTMF sounds that would be great. But I'm on Spectrum Voice and the 4 modems I've had all work flawlessly with pulse dialing. although in a few months I'm switching to AT&T Internet and an AT&T POTS Line from my local exchange :)
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: MMikeJBenN27 on December 18, 2020, 06:24:52 AM
I say RESIST, and refuse to give up your regular phone service.  If enough of us insist on keeping it, the phone companies will keep it going.  If too few of us do, then they will get rid of it.  Simple as that.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: dsk on December 18, 2020, 06:56:13 AM
They just raised the costs for POTS here so we have had IP telephony for years now (since they just closed down the copper network in some areas). I pay 1/4 of the costs of a POTS-line.  Several of my friends that kept the POTS line has got problems with the line, and when they tells the telco about the problem, they get the answer  OK, we just close down that, because we do not repair on copper lines. (not even if that is your only choice to get internet)   :-[
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: dsk on December 18, 2020, 06:56:46 AM
Many converters make that sounds that dc4code mentioned. It has been to difficult to get an ATA here that understands rotary. The Smart1 adapter works without making strange sounds.  :)   If we come to different systems like Swedish, NZ/Oslo dials, the only one that works is the dialgizmo, and that one make sounds. 
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: markosjal on December 20, 2020, 04:24:59 PM
Let me Preach the Telegospel AGAIN!


Get yourself a UTStarcom IAN-02-EX

these things are workhorses although they do not support high ring power like some Grandstreams the Pulse detection is very good and it does not "convert" pulses to DTMF rather it detects pulses directly. (unfortuately no tone overdialing so we would need a Rotatone - like device online only while in a call for overdialing to get the best of both worlds) . But please note my tests with the IAN-02X and rotatone have not worked at all and I do not know why.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: Jack Aman on December 20, 2020, 10:07:24 PM
I use an X-link BTTN with cable VOIP.  All my old phones work perfectly.  The experience in the house is indistinguishable from POTS.  The bluetooth link to our cell phones is a bonus.  "Land line" (VOIP) calls ring with the standard North America ring.   Calls to my cell ring with the British 'ring-ring" pattern.  My wife's cell rings with a long-short pattern.  The BTTN rings two 302's, three 202's on subsets, and one 102 on a subset strongly, and that is without the "extra ringing power" you can choose in the settings.  There are even settings to allow for slow or sticky dials, foreign dials, etc etc.  Voice mail and other "trees" ("press one now...") work perfectly with the dials.  Really happy with the setup.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: markosjal on December 20, 2020, 10:18:11 PM
I just bought an Xlink  the model with 3 Bluetooth connections and a single POTS line at Goodwill for $6.99 . I only need a power supply for it. Anyone know the power connector size?
Mark
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: dsk on December 21, 2020, 03:27:01 AM
The plug is equal to the one I use on my Linksys adapter, voltage 9V (+/-2V) center +. 
Congratulations with a good bargin.

I have not found any one willing to send a UTStarcom IAN-02-EX to Norway at all, and even the grandstream adapters who should accept rotary are not available here, and shipping will be at least $50  On the top the charge me with about 25.30% tax of the total!

I guess I keep my system running with the Smart1 adapter. I have not tested if the Smart1 will be accepted by the dialgizmo :-)

Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: markosjal on December 21, 2020, 04:33:09 AM
Thanks DSK but it is the dimensions that I need if I am to get one.


Here is one that looks like will ship to Norway
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-UTstarcom-LINGO-IAN-02EX-WIRED-NETWORK-VOIP-TELEPHONE-ADAPTER-MODULE-U53V004/131773143662?hash=item1eae4a9a6e:g:2tMAAOSwWBJXBFmY&shqty=1&isGTR=1#shId ( dead link 04-13-21 )
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: dsk on December 21, 2020, 11:37:02 AM
Thank you, I have just asked them. Shipping will be $35

The DC plug on mine measured Ø=5.4 mm  ø=2.1 mm length of the plug =10 mm

Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: markosjal on December 23, 2020, 11:02:50 PM
I hope you made sure it is not locked or unlocked!
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: dsk on January 14, 2021, 12:26:44 PM
It arrived today, but how to log in? 

I have tested user and 12345  and  supervisor and utstar.

Should we continue this in another thread?
dsk
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: markosjal on January 19, 2021, 10:22:22 PM
First you should check with the seller.


If he is selling a locked unit, the page should say that!

I am not using default password and do not remember what it is.

My UTStarcom shows that I can dial the following on a connected touchtone phone to reset it
*#322867973738 (*#FACTORTRESET)
it seems there is a shorter reset something like #73738 (#RESET) or*73738 (*RESET)  or *#73738


if you do this disconnect it from the internet so it does not download a new config.


If this is a Lingo version try this https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21875137-Unlock-Lingo-V2-8-2-63b-U53V005-00-00-UTSTARCOM-unlock

Please post photos of labels and logos on unit
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: dsk on January 20, 2021, 01:17:02 PM
Thank you, *#322867973738 did it.
This is a complex setup compared with the simper Linksys, but it reads rotary   :)
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: markosjal on January 22, 2021, 09:25:16 AM
The simple config:


VoIP  > Protocol  > Select  SIP

VoIP > User   > Set Username, Login ID, and Displayname to account user. Set Password to Password

VoIP > SIP: > Set Proxy Address, Registrar Address, Outbound Proxy Address, and SIP Domain to Server IP or FQDN
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: dsk on January 22, 2021, 02:47:34 PM
It was a new way of thinking setup, but as I wrote, it works, even for rotary, and that is the main thing! Rotary works on this ATA    :) :) :)   So thank you for the tip about this unit, it is actually extremely advanced with so many possibilities.   :o   That is also the "problem"   ::)   It is hard to stop trying out everything when its working already. :-X

It is good to be able to use a rotary phone without having anything extra between the phone and the ATA ;D
dsk

Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: countryman on January 22, 2021, 03:19:58 PM
Very good news!
I'm using a AVM Fritz!Box device but great to hear about alternatives.
Title: Re: Voice over Internet Protocol (VoiP) phone service and pulse dialing
Post by: markosjal on November 22, 2022, 03:11:00 PM
Quote from: Jack Aman on December 20, 2020, 10:07:24 PMI use an X-link BTTN with cable VOIP.  All my old phones work perfectly.  The experience in the house is indistinguishable from POTS.  The bluetooth link to our cell phones is a bonus.  "Land line" (VOIP) calls ring with the standard North America ring.   Calls to my cell ring with the British 'ring-ring" pattern.  My wife's cell rings with a long-short pattern.  The BTTN rings two 302's, three 202's on subsets, and one 102 on a subset strongly, and that is without the "extra ringing power" you can choose in the settings.  There are even settings to allow for slow or sticky dials, foreign dials, etc etc.  Voice mail and other "trees" ("press one now...") work perfectly with the dials.  Really happy with the setup.


I find this very hard to believe. The delay alone on a cell phone means that many calls sound like they are half duplex.