51AL Questions.

[Phonesrfun]

Wait a second.... Now that I look more closely..... the two switch contacts in the photos closest to the backing do not seem to open in either case on hook or off.  Both sets of contact should be open when the hook is down (on-hook) and both sets should be closed when the hook is up (off hook).  that does not seem to be the case with yours.  Can you look at that?

[Kenny C]

They wont open. Is something wrong?

[Phonesrfun]

Either something is not adjusted right or the switch has been modified, or it is not a 151 switch after all.  One of those three possibilities.  The thing that suprises me is that with that back set of contacts, the way it is, when the hook is down, not only will it not open that set of springs, it actually will close them more!

If Marty can take a picture of his hookswitch contacts of his 151, we would have something to compare it to, since I do not own a 151.  The problem here is that even if the phone is properly wired to be a 51AL, we need a 3-section hookswitch, which yours is not.  With the switch the way it is, we could get the phone to work in sidetone mode, but it would not be wired entirely correctly.

So, don't despair, we will get you up and running soon.  However, if Marty or someone else can post a picture of a genuine 151AL hookswitch, it would help.

[Phonesrfun]

So, while we are waiting for a picture, do you want to get it wired up anyway?

I am ready to help with that.

[stub]

Bill,
      Looking at Kenny's hookswitch , the pile up is different than Marty's . Kenny's might not be a 151 AL either. Compare and see what you think. The back set can be adjusted , look at the front set. Can a person take these switches apart and reconfigure it to a 51 AL ?   stub

[Wallphone]

From the looks of Kenny's first picture he needs to bend the top contact spring upwards so that it is not making contact with the other one when the receiver is off the hook. Then it will have room to close when he hangs up the receiver.
Doug Pav

[Phonesrfun]

We want both sets of contacts to open when the receiver is on the hook.  That won't happen the way it is configured.  Noticing the un-straight springs, it appears to me that somewhere in this phone's 75 or 80 year life has had the hookswitch springs tampered with.  It is entirely possible to take these apart and rearrange the springs and the spacers.  I have offerred to do that for Kenny as an option if we cannot source a better hookswitch.

I don't know whether that hookswitch pile started out as a 51 or a 151, but right now it is neither.  For a 51, we need three separate springs, all of which are apart when the phone is on hook, and which all come together as one contact point when the phone is off the hook.

For a 151, we need two completely separate and insulated switches from each other.  Both of which are open while on hook, and closed when off hook.

What we seem to have is two separate switch sections; one of which does what we want, and is open when on hook and closed when off hook.  But we have the second section which is insulated from the first, but it never opens.  Not only that, but its action is opposite that of what we want.  If we were to tadjust its action so that it would open and close, it seems to me, visually, like it would open when off hook and close when on-hook.  Backwards.

There is an old guy here in town who is really into wood magneto phones.  He has a lot of parts.  I owe him a visit, and I will try to see if he has any candlestick parts that can work.

At this point, the sidetone switch that has the three springs that all come together would be better than nothing at all.  Let's see what I can dig up.  Whatever the course, I don't see much if any additional cost to Kenny.

[Wallphone]

You are right Bill, I was thinking of something else. A picture with light on the subject would be nice too. With my eyes I can't tell if that is the switch or just a shadow of it. I wonder if something is supposed to go through that blob in the middle and push the top spring open, kinda like the shunt contacts on an AE dial.
Doug Pav

[Wallphone]

Looking at some of the diagrams in the TCI Library it looks like an Anti Sidetone Desk Stand. It also looks like someone had the contact stack apart and didn't put it together correctly. The pusher spring should be closest to the center support like Marty's. On Kenny's it is the third one from it. So far I have only taken my 40AL apart. I will see what I can find in my 51AL.
Doug Pav

[Wallphone]

Kenny, when you downloaded the diagram like you said you did in your 2nd posting did you look at the contact springs in the diagram? There are only 3 of them and you have 4 like Marty's 151. My 51AL only has 3 like the diagram says. It looks like someone may have tried to turn yours into a 151 and didn't quite get it right. If Marty can get you a better picture, try to change your springs around to look like his and then you will have a anti-sidetone set. I'll get a picture of my 51AL soon just so you can see what a 51AL looks like.
Doug Pav

[Kenny C]

If i were to use it as a 151AL it would have to have the extra pad for the two wires

[stub]

 Bill ,
        I'm gonna look at Kenny', hookswitch pile up in the morning and see if I can reconfigure it for a 51 AL. If I get it right I'll show him how to fix it. Yep, tear it back down and have him put it back together, a good way to learn.    
        May need some of those parts from your friend       stub

[marty]

Hi All;
My friend who took a couple of pictures has not sent them to me as of yet.. SO I took a couple more pictures.. This is the best I can do, with my cell phone/camera.. Even though I look at them before hand, they always come out different after they are uploaded to this site...
THANK YOU Marty

[stub]

If nothing breaks , during the disassembling and bending and reassembling, I think Kenny will have a nice WE 51 AL .  (P D B , please don't break )   stub

[Phonesrfun]

Thanks for the photos, Marty, it really helps and shows how the switch pile-up should be configured.  What a life-saver.

Notice that the long stiff springy one is in the very back of the stack.  Kenny's has been modified to have that piece in the middle.  So many people try taking these apart and don't draw out a very detailed picture showing each and every insulator and piece before disassembly.  They look so simple when they are all together.

Copious photos don't hurt either!  

If all else fails, I did manage to find a 51AL type switch assembly at my friend's tonight.  I was really past due for a visit, and he gave it to me, so this project now has a spare.