My First 302 repair - Lots of questions

[winkydink]

I just purchased and received in the mail my first WE 302.  I planned for this to be a fall/winter project.    When I opened the box much to my disappointment the were a few things that were not mentioned in the listing, but that will be part of the challenge.

First the phone has a slight hairline crack in the plastic housing.  It doesn't show unless you flex the housing (as in taking off the housing to expose the inners).  I figure some crazy glue will take care of that.

Next the bells are missing (whats that all about?).

In addition, the dial is loose because it is missing 2 screws that hold it to the housing.  I also need to wire from the base to modular connector.  And also clean up/polish the housing and handset.

(I have also purchased another 302 and a 354 for about $10 + shipping)

I will post some photos later, but first a few questions.

• What is the best way to clean and polish the housing.  If there are links to previous discussion about that please include.  I am interested in what compounds people use, sanding buffing etc.
• What would be my most practice source for bells (buy a junker phone, or perhaps use this a my junker phone?)
• Missing dial screws - where can I find them ?
• Wires and spades - If I need internal wires with spades, do member of the forum pre-buy them or make them themselves ?
• I have shyed away from metal housing 302, figuring the plastic was easier to restore.  Is this assumption correct for a newcomer
• In general what are the best all purpose tools I should have for a restoration project (dremmel, elbow grease, etc) ?
• What is the best way to restore the black rotary dial, basic sanding and spray paint, stripping it clean and then painting or something else

I will show you my before pictures in the next couple of days.

Thanks in advance to the answers to any of my questions.

[bingster]

I'll let the experts weigh in on the cleaning/restoration, as I haven't done that, myself.  I can tell you about the screws and cord, though.

Oldphoneworks has a set of three dial mounting screws for 99¢.  You could also take the one you have to the hardware store and match it, if you want them pronto.
http://www.oldphoneworks.com/screws-dial-set-of-3.html

They can also hook you up with a cloth-covered mounting cord that terminates in a modern modular jack.
12 bucks for 7 feet: http://www.oldphoneworks.com/cord-line-cloth-spade-modular-brown-7.html
24 for 15 feet: http://www.oldphoneworks.com/cord-line-cloth-spade-modular-brown-15.html

I'd be really interested in finding appropriate loose spades too, if anybody knows a source.

Since there are parts missing, it's pretty likely that the wiring has been tinkered with, too.  So you might also want to double-check all the wiring:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=275.0

About the ringer:  You can get a ringer from many places online, including oldphoneworks, phonecoinc, or even other forum members.  If it were me, I'd rather get a cheap junker, because that would increase your stock of spare parts.

[Dennis Markham]

I had planned on responding in detail to this and still will.  But I'll put my 2cents worth in now about the screws.

I recently bought a lot of 100 from a fellow collector.  The brand name on these is Waldom - Part #F466-B.  But what is important is they are 4-36 X 3/8 Round Machine Head screws.  As Bingster said, if you go to Ace Hardware or the equivalent you should be able to obtain them much cheaper than buying them off-line (due to shipping).  But if you're ordering other stuff too........  I think I paid about $5 for 100 of them and they work just great.  You may never need more though so if you can't find them locally and want me to send you 3 of them I will.

As far as spades, I have been able to find two sizes of spade tips at Radio Shack.  They have about 3 prongs that stick up...you lay the wire in the little trough and clamp down the prongs.  I have used them on line cords, ringer wires and the like.  They work pretty good.  The smaller ones work best for line cords.

I'll write more of my tips for cleaning later on.....I have a million things going at once.

[Dan/Panther]

I used to watch WinkyDink on T.V. In New York, when I was 4 years old. With the green sticky screen cover, and red wax crayons, to draw along with WinkyDink.

Both Dennis Markham, and myself have threads where we go through a 302. You may want to check them out and decide which methods you are best suited to perform.

Mine basically is taking a very dirty, and abused 302, and bringing it back to life.
D/P

Here are the links'
Dannis'-

http://picasaweb.google.com/vintagerotaryphones/RefurbishModel302BrokenCradleEars#

Mine-

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=218.0

[McHeath]

I concur on Radio Shack as a source for spades.  They even have some the package says are for telephone use, and they work nicely for me. 

The metal fingerwheel has several options to you depending on the level of wear on the finish.  If it's not bad at all you can clean and polish it then put on wax and shazam, your done.  Painting can be done as well if it's bad, I've sanded them well, cleaned with rubbing alcohol, painted, then put them in the oven at 350 degrees to bake the paint on.  I've also heard tale of some folk having them powder coated, we have a place here in town that does this, but I've never done it and have no idea at the price.

Missing parts are annoying.  I finally picked up a couple of junker phones to use for parts, which for me and my current interests meant I got a 500 and a 2554.  Lots of screws, transmitters/receivers, and even wires and some plastic parts can be lifted from the junker phones and will make life easier, I found my parts phones at the nearby thrift store for only a few bucks each. 

The 302 is a nice phone, I think you will enjoy fixing yours up.

[Dan/Panther]

I switch phones as it strikes my fancy, and tonight I hooked up my Yellow 500, and my refurbed 302, both on my desk, and both work fine.

D/P

[Dan/Panther]

McHeath;
How many connectors do you get, and how much do they charge ?
D/P

[winkydink]

Thanks to everyone for all the replies.  I need to digest it all and then begin my work.

I still need to get my pictures taken and up on this thread.  Until then here is the ebay listing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=360101205146 ( dead link 03-14-21 )

As mentioned before, I have another phone which I just purchased (on ebay) for $10 plus shipping.  In going along with the forums advice for purchasing cheap phones, the description is a little fuzzy.  It looks like another 302 but I am not sure (I will find out for sure in the next few days when it arrives).  In any case, I can probably use that for some part or perhaps, if that is in better condition restore that one.

Here is a link to that one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=390006886887 ( dead link 03-14-21 )

and a wall phone for about the same price
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=220306825343 ( dead link 03-14-21 )

I will try and pick up another "junker" phone over the next few weeks if and when the price is right.

One last question.  If I need to do some rewiring, what gage of wire should I use?

Thanks again !

I used to watch WinkyDink on T.V. In New York, when I was 4 years old. With the green sticky screen cover, and red wax crayons, to draw along with WinkyDink.

Dan you are correct with regard to my username.  I am in my late 40's and grew up outside of NYC.  Every afternoon on Channel 5 (WNEW) in the 1960's they would show reruns of the "Winky Dink and you" show.  This was a New York thing, because people here in central PA (where I am now) have never heard of the show.  For those who are unfamiliar.  Winky Dink was a cartoon character (old CBS 1950's show), that was the first "interactive" TV show.  You put a plastic screen on your TV picture tube and during the show, you help Winky Dink out (He would ask you to draw a bridge for him so he could get over some water or things like that).  Most parents did not buy their kids the the plastic screen kit and much to their chagrin, the kids would draw directly on the screen when the parents were not paying attention.  Oh the good old days

[winkydink]

The metal fingerwheel has several options to you depending on the level of wear on the finish.  If it's not bad at all you can clean and polish it then put on wax and shazam, your done.  Painting can be done as well if it's bad, I've sanded them well, cleaned with rubbing alcohol, painted, then put them in the oven at 350 degrees to bake the paint on.  I've also heard tale of some folk having them powder coated, we have a place here in town that does this, but I've never done it and have no idea at the price.

- What type of wax do you use (car wax ?)

- What type of paint ? Spray paint ?  Any particular brand ?

- How long do you bake it ?

If I restore/repair my first 302, then it looks like I will be painting the finger wheel as there is some missing paint.

[Dennis Markham]

One of the lessons it took me a long time to figure out was that when buying off eBay one cannot leave anything to chance.  You have to ask the seller questions.  If it is unsaid in the listing, the assumption has to be that a negative condition exists.  The better the item, generally the more that will be written about it.  You have to ask about cracks, chips, etc.  I remember asking once if a phone had any cracks and the seller responded by saying "none that I can see".  I replied and asked if there were any that I could see.  I have also been the victim of a similar fate though with getting phones without ringers and with cracks that were not reported.  In fairness many sellers just pick up huge lots of stuff and sell them...they don't examine closely and may never have another phone to sell.  So they don't know how to look for cracks.  It's a good idea to ask specifically to have them check the corners for cracks since this is where the 302's break due to shrinkage. 

I wrote a 5 part series on my blog page about what to look for on eBay (and other places) when searching for a telephone.  This link will take you to article #5---just work backward---if you're interested.  In this article I used a model 500 as my example:

http://www.vintagerotaryphones.com/index.php?s=is+it+really+from+1957

When I find the need to repair a crack I make sure the inside of the crack is clean.  I then use Krazy Glue, Super Glue and the like.  I'm experimenting now with some other type glues but the Super Glue will bond the crack.  I make sure there is plenty of glue inside the crack and on each side of it.  I'm not concerned about glue on the exterior of the phone as the area will have to be wet-sanded.  The existence of the crack may or may not disappear.  Sometimes they do disappear but the important thing is to bond the crack.  To prevent future cracking I recommend grinding the plastic inside the case on the corners to allow the case to fit properly over the metal base.  Over time those thermoplastic cases shrink tight over the base causing the corners to split.

For grinding I use a hand held Dremmel tool with a grinding bit.

From time to time ringer bells are offered for sale on eBay.  Otherwise your choices are limited.  You may be able to find them at PhoneCo (www.phonecoinc.com) or OldPhoneWorks (www.oldphoneworks.com).  If you are interested in collecting telephones in the future I recommend joining one or both of the national phone clubs, The Antique Telephone Collectors International (www.atcaonline.com) or the Telephone Collector's International (www.telephonecollectors.org).  Both clubs are excellent and have many members.  Parts are often offered for sale from people that have too many and one can always ask the group for parts.  Normally offered at a lower rate than what you find on eBay.

I don't mean to be disrespectful so please don't take the following comment in a negative way.  What I think you already have here is a parts phone.  It appears that someone else stripped the ringer, the dial had been removed and only replaced with one screw, the line cord is missing and the case is cracked.  As I said, I learned the hard way many times by buying something that turned out to be a parts phone.  That's why I have so many parts.  For what you have invested in this phone---about $20 including shipping, that really isn't a bad price for parts.  I have paid that much for a phone I bought simply for parts.  The bad taste left in your mouth however from the seller not being completely up front about the condition is something you want to be careful not to repeat.

For cleaning and polishing, I strip the phone of all the electrical parts.  I then wash the plastic and Bakelite in a bath of warm sudsy water.  When it is dried I polish the plastic and Bakelite with Novus2 polish.  Novus products are available on-line (and also on eBay).  I rarely use #3 (for real deep scratches) or #1 which is a fine spray that is supposed to compliment the finished product.  Novus 2 is the work-horse for me.  There are other methods, including Brasso on the Bakelite.  These tips are what work best for me.  Everyone has their own techniques/tricks that they've developed for themselves.  I buy Novus 2 by the half gallon bottle and refill my 8oz bottle as needed.  The half gallon bottle I have now is nearly empty.  I dated it when I bought it in Jan. of 2007 so I got nearly 2 years out of it---and I use a LOT of it.  An 8oz bottle will probably be good for you.  Often sellers want to sell you a 3 bottle combination of 1-2-3.  I will guarantee you that when the #2 is gone you'll have plenty of 1 and 3 left.  See if you can buy just the #2.  If not, find another seller.  There are many.

I apply Novus 2 by hand for several coats before I use an electric buffer.  I like the hand-held Ryobi buffer.  It is small and fits in one hand.  They are $19.99 at Home Depot.  They come with a couple of terry cloth covers, perfect for buffing.  Be careful anytime you are polishing.  If you apply too much pressure on the plastic it can cause a crack.  Believe me, I have cracked a couple of phones while polishing.  But the Ryobi works very nice.  It rotates at a rather quick speed.  The friction of the pad in combination with the polish generate heat that helps to remove a lot of dirt that you thought was gone.

I have not painted so I have no tips to offer you there.  Perhaps one day I will get into painting but as of yet I just try and find phones that appear to me that will clean and polish into nice shape.  The metal finger wheels are often the issue since there is generally some paint loss.  I like to say the paint loss gives them "character".  But I have a stack of finger wheels that did not make the cut.  I don't throw anything away.  Maybe someday I'll learn myself to paint them properly and then re-use them.

I like to use the word "refurbish" as opposed to "restore".  In my pea brain when I think of restore that means I make it like the day it was born.  So when I use the word refurbish, to me it means to renovate or to brighten.  So there is less pressure on the person doing the job.  It is very difficult to make a phone perfect but you can get it pretty close.  The more you do, the better you'll get and the better the phones will look.  I look back on phones I did a year ago or two years ago.  I would like to go back and re-do them now with the added knowledge that I've gained.  With some of my phones, I have.

If hope that some of my tips are helpful.  If you'd like more information or have questions, please ask.

Dennis

I just purchased and received in the mail my first WE 302.  I planned for this to be a fall/winter project.    When I opened the box much to my disappointment the were a few things that were not mentioned in the listing, but that will be part of the challenge.

First the phone has a slight hairline crack in the plastic housing.  It doesn't show unless you flex the housing (as in taking off the housing to expose the inners).  I figure some crazy glue will take care of that.

Next the bells are missing (whats that all about?).

In addition, the dial is loose because it is missing 2 screws that hold it to the housing.  I also need to wire from the base to modular connector.  And also clean up/polish the housing and handset.

(I have also purchased another 302 and a 354 for about $10 + shipping)

I will post some photos later, but first a few questions.

• What is the best way to clean and polish the housing.  If there are links to previous discussion about that please include.  I am interested in what compounds people use, sanding buffing etc.
• What would be my most practice source for bells (buy a junker phone, or perhaps use this a my junker phone?)
• Missing dial screws - where can I find them ?
• Wires and spades - If I need internal wires with spades, do member of the forum pre-buy them or make them themselves ?
• I have shyed away from metal housing 302, figuring the plastic was easier to restore.  Is this assumption correct for a newcomer
• In general what are the best all purpose tools I should have for a restoration project (dremmel, elbow grease, etc) ?
• What is the best way to restore the black rotary dial, basic sanding and spray paint, stripping it clean and then painting or something else

I will show you my before pictures in the next couple of days.

Thanks in advance to the answers to any of my questions.

[Dennis Markham]

You should not need to put new wires in the phone.  I have worked on a few phones and never had to replace a wire.  I think when people say "rewire" they mean to change the position of a given wire----from one terminal to the other.

Dennis

One last question.  If I need to do some rewiring, what gage of wire should I use?

Thanks again !

[winkydink]

I don't mean to be disrespectful so please don't take the following comment in a negative way.  What I think you already have here is a parts phone.  It appears that someone else stripped the ringer, the dial had been removed and only replaced with one screw, the line cord is missing and the case is cracked.  As I said, I learned the hard way many times by buying something that turned out to be a parts phone. 

Dennis, no disrepect taken.

I am new to this and realized from the begining that I would make some mistakes along the way.  It's part of the learning process, and learning I am doing.

I appreciate the time you have taken to give me some good advice.

I will see if either of the other 2 phones I will be getting are better candidates for "refurbishing" (better word), otherwise, the next phone I purchase, I will ask many questions and hopefully it will be in better shape.

By the way, I am really enjoying the WE 202 that I recently purchased.  The dialer problem was fixed thank to the forum and the phone was in "previously refurbished" state, so I did not need to do any thing else with it, but use it!

-Jim

[bingster]

and a wall phone for about the same price
...

One last question.  If I need to do some rewiring, what gage of wire should I use?

The wall phone is a great deal.  The handset cord has been replaced by a piece of station wire, the wire that's normally found stapled to the baseboard, but even so that's a brilliant price for a 354.

Rewiring shouldn't involve the actual replacement of wires, but rather making sure the wires present are connected properly.  The only internal wire that could possibly be missing is a so-called "dial cord."  It's the only wire in the phone that's not permanently connected to anything. I think there's one in a 302, and two in a 202.  If they're missing, you can fabricate new ones to use.  I don't think they're picky about gauge, and anything of a reasonably close gauge should do the job just fine.

[winkydink]

Well the other 2 phones arrived today (a 302 and a 354), in much better shape that the first one.  The 354 looks complete and in very good shape, just a little dirty.

The 302 has it's ringer bells ! It looks like it will clean up nicely, however, I cannot get the cover off the base.  I losened the screws, but the cover will not come off.  Any ideas on how to safely remove it without breaking the case?

Should I use the hair dryer method to heat the case and expand it ?

I also have the plungers stuck in the down position.  I won't know what is going on with that until I can open it up.

Thanks.

[McHeath]

McHeath;
How many connectors do you get, and how much do they charge ?
D/P

Item number 64-3070, Telephone Spade Lugs, "Designed to pierce insulation of 26-22 gauge wire", package of 24.  Think I paid about 5 dollars for it, handy little things, especially for making a line cord out of a dual modular cord. 

- What type of wax do you use (car wax ?)

- What type of paint ? Spray paint ?  Any particular brand ?

- How long do you bake it ?

I use plain old Turtle Wax, which I've had good success with over the years on my cars and antique firearms.  (the metal parts on the firearms, I just use linseed oil for the stocks)  I've tried lots of waxes, fancy carnuba based jobs that cost an arm and leg, high tech waxes of micro this and that, but always come back to Turtle Wax.  It goes on easy, buffs easy, and lasts pretty well. 

As for types of paint, I use a Krylon spray paint, in gloss black, and get nice results from it.  I'm sure other paints will work well also.  I bake the fingerwheels for about 3 hours, probably overkill but they are sure nice and hard by then.