(3) Sets of WE 302 Ringers Won't Ring

[gands-antiques]

Hello,

I have (4) WE ringer assemblies....(1) works well and rings very loud and the other (3) won't ring when installed in a 302 or when tested with my RS telephone test station.

I've cleaned the contacts on the ringers, moved the bias springs to all of the positions and they still only buzz, flutter or provide a very light vibration (no ring).

Is there anything that can be done to get the ringers working again?

Thanks,
Gary  

[Phonesrfun]

Well, the pivot points might be gummed up, causing the things to move in a sluggish motion, or maybe the armatures have been bent.  Visually inspect them to see if that is the case.  Check the defective ringers very closely against the known good ringer for all aspects of motion and relative positions of all moving and stationary parts.

Since they do something as opposed to nothing at all, the coils might be somewhat shorted or have some issues, but not likely.  I would measure the DC resistance of the ringer coils with an Ohm meter just to see if they are the proper resistance.  If the coils are not the proper resistance, there is probably little you can do to make them better, but check them just to make sure.  A B1A ringer with two leads (red and black) should measure about 4,500 Ohms.  A B2A ringer with 4 leads (red, slate/red) and (Black, slate) should measure 3,500 Ohms between red and slate/red and 1,000 ohms between black and slate.

[G-Man]

I'm not sure what you mean by cleaning the contacts since the B-type ringers used in 302's don't have contacts. In any event, by any chance are they standard B1 or B2 ringers or perhaps frequency ringers as used by independent telephone companies?

[dsk]

  Pictures please

dsk

[gands-antiques]

One of the ringers started working properly so I'm only posting pictures of two ringers sets.

G-Man...The contacts that I am talking about are the ones under the bar that moves back and forth to ring the bells.

Bill.. All of the pivot points, wires, etc look the same on all 3 ringers.  I checked the resistance of the 3 ringers and the one that started working is 4500 ohms, the one with a brass and a black bell is 4500 ohms and the one with both black bells WAS ONLY 1800 ohms.

;)Pictures please

dsk

[dsk]

Looks fine
The resistance indicates type ringer. The 1800 Ω ringer is most likely a type used together with a 1 µF capacitor.
The 4500 Ω ringer could be a B type used together with a 0.5  µF capacitor,

The ringers looks OK, so if it moves freely, and it still has a little permanent magnetism, i agree, it should work.   

Depending of your possibilities put it up in series with a known working capacitor, connect to the line and test, or replace one of the working ones in a telephone who is well working.

Remember the size of the capacitors!

Good luck.

dsk

[Phonesrfun]

The B3A ringer was designed for use on a party line using a cold cathode tube in series, rather than a capacitor in series to ring the ringer on a party line.  At 1800 ohms, perhaps you can find a higher value capacitor to put in series with it to get it to ring better.

The B1AL should work, as far as I am aware, but must have some physical defect or problem that is holding it back from working.

[poplar1]

The 4500 Ohm ringer is a B1AL which is standard in a 302.
The 1800 Ohm ringer is a B3A, normally used with a cold cathode tube. However, many 306s were converted to 302G "Special" by adding a capacitor, as in George's ivory set:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8091.0

[gands-antiques]

Thanks to everyone for all of the information. All of the ringers came off of 302s that I have and they all have the standard oval shaped long capacitors.   I've been trying to get all of the the phones working and the phones perform all of the other functions (dial out, receive calls and transmit but all have non-existent or very weak rings).

Based on your evaluation I would think the capacitors might be shot but the fact that the ringers all perform the same way when connected to my telephone tester that has a high and a low ring option I'm not really sure the problem is the capacitors.

Is there a resistance check or any other type of check that can be performed on the capacitors to confirm they are good or bad?

Thanks,
Gary

 

[dsk]

I'm not sure how your tester works, but if it use to work testing ringers direct without capacitor, the ringer should ring!

I have multimeter with capacitor measuring, but before I got that  the ohm meter was used to indicate if it was OK or not.

Connecting the ohm meter should give a reading more or less slowly return to no reading, swapping the leads, it happens again. 

If no changing in the readings at all, it may be shorted, and you read a lo ohmic value, or if it is broken (rare) it should give no reading at all.

dsk

[poplar1]

As dsk mentioned, the B3A may require a larger value capacitor. You could increase it from 0.5 to 1.0 by putting a second 0.47 or 0.5 capacitor in parallel with the yellow and slate leads of the existing capacitor.

[gands-antiques]

One of the capacitors has 2 wires and it shows no resistance when I check it with the ohm meter. 

The other 2 capacitors have 4 wires.  Which wires do I check on the capacitors with 4 wires?

Thanks,
Gary

[Phonesrfun]

Probably the easiest way to check a capacitor without a DVM that has the ability to check capacitance specifically is to swap the capacitor out with another one.  Check the suspect capacitor with another known good ringer, and check a known good capacitor with the suspect ringer.  

[Phonesrfun]

One of the capacitors has 2 wires and it shows no resistance when I check it with the ohm meter. 

The other 2 capacitors have 4 wires.  Which wires do I check on the capacitors with 4 wires?

Thanks,
Gary

The two capacitor 195A can has one cap between the red and black wire and the other between the yellow and slate wires.  The ringer is the yellow/slate combo.

Depending on your meter and the setting, you will not see continuity or a reading for anything more than a fraction of a second any way.  Ohm meters are a lousy way to check capacitors unless you have experience and know what to look for.

[gands-antiques]

Thanks, I will try the swap capacitors way and see if I can verify good or bad.

My tester is a RS Model 43-114 telephone tester.  It has always rang the bells with either the high or low ring button.

Thanks,
Gary