If you see a phone you like on eBay, bid on it. Bid the amount you feel it is worth....or you are prepared to pay. Be prepared to be out bid, its the nature of the beast. Just because you bid on it first, doesn't mean you saw it first. Not every member knows all the other members eBay bidding codes....or cares to know. I know a few of the high rollers, like the Museum etc. Others...sorry I don't. I can't remember what I had for dinner last night...I digress 8)...Ah yes...It was steak and swordfish on the grille made by my brother in law. Outstanding!
If I outbid you, I am sorry......in my opinion you did not bid enough. Conversely I was outbid. I did not bid enough, that's how it works. Life in the fast lane, on to the next auction. I will live to bid another day. Best thing about eBay is there is another phone right around the corner.
All is fair in Love and eBay. ...Doug
Well said, Doug....
Quote from: Doug Rose on August 14, 2016, 07:35:32 AM
All is fair in Love and eBay. ...Doug
Quote
Well, almost. All is fair when it comes to
bidding on eBay. Listing is another matter (and another topic)
I am a sniper. I admit it. I snipe manually, the old fashioned way, no sniping programs for me. I love the thrill of pushing the button at the last possible second. I know what that is for every device I have and every connection. If there is a phone I think I really really want, I will bid too high. Did you loose to me? Sorry, I wanted it more. Did I lose to you? You probably paid too much, in my opinion. Maybe way too much and I can be happy I didn't win. Sometimes I think I should have bid a bit more, oh well.
eBay is not a traditional auction. There are no calls for higher bids. There are snipers. It is different. It also is national or even international. It allows me to find and purchase things I would never find otherwise. It allows a seller in an area where the item is quite common to sell to someone who has never seen one at a garage sale and otherwise never would. It can raise prices and infuriate collectors, just as it can help a collector sell at a really good price.
Overall I think eBay has expanded the world for collectors and brought more people into collecting. I'm stepping off the soapbox now, the geezers among you know how that phrase came into being. ;D Jim
At one point in time, we had an agreement NOT to post auctions we see, because MAYBE someone else is flying under the radar.
I would like to see that started up again.
Another Pet Peeve is Mr. Helpful, don't contact sellers and point out errors in the listing. For example, ":You do know that phone is worth much more than you are asking".
It's up to the seller to do His/Her homework. That is how WE as collectors get deals.
JMHO.
D/P
Quote from: JimHyak on August 14, 2016, 09:52:21 AM
I snipe manually, the old fashioned way, no sniping programs for me. I love the thrill of pushing the button at the last possible second.
My name is Tom and I'm also a sniper. I use to do it manually but I now use a snipe program (myibidder). I want the item and I use the most efficient tool to get it.
I like the fact that I set the amount I want to bid and walk away. The rush I use to get pushing the button at the last second is now replaced by the rush when I click on the auction link and see I won.
I'm a sniper too, usually using the myibidder site to do my bidding, but my excuse is my sleep disorder, I'm not always awake when an auction comes to an end, so manual-sniping doesn't work (that and I'm forgetful and have lost a lot of auctions because I simply forgot about them!!), it's nothing like a real auction where snipe-bidding doesn't happen, as if you bid before the hammer falls, the auctioneer will keep accepting bids 'til everyone gives up...
Doesn't always work though, for example, items that I've tried buying in the past have had zero bids 'til the last half an hour, people just rush in and bump it up way past what I thought I could have gotten it for (and often they win it for more than they could have paid elsewhere, which I often did!!), and of course I base my bids on what I can afford, which on occasion is about right for the item, but, I still get outbid... :-\
I know on at least one occasion, not a telephone but antique signage, I as the highest bidder, I set my highest bid WAY higher than what I thought a sniper might bid. It worked and I won the bid, even after last second snipers, at about $50 less than my highest set bid...
Bidding high can work, but personally I don't like snipers or any "last-few-minutes" bidders nibbling away at my max bid. I feel a bit naked doing that. I'd rather not display my intentions and then bid high at the very end if possible......
Regarding Dan/Panther's concern, I do agree that in many cases, we probably help the seller get a higher price by "advertising" the auction on this forum. This also prevents a buyer from getting a better deal on an item that otherwise might go less noticed. In the "early days" of the forum, there was an informal guideline to not "out" an Ebay item unless there were already many bidders/watchers, or the start price was obviously high. Perhaps this would be a good item to discuss again.....
I always keep quiet about what I plan on bidding on...
I agree with just about everything that has been stated so far. I am a manual sniper, I like the rush that way. As far as "outing" phones that is been discussed many many times. I agree we should not publicize phones that may go under the radar. I also do not like Mr. Helpful. The seller is offering the item at a price he thinks is fair for it so if he gets that price he will be happy and so will the buyer. If it is way below the "actual" value, great for the buyer. As a seller I research every item I sell to determine my starting price and for useful information about the item. If a seller lists an old black phone for $9.99 that is the value to him, even if it is a 1949 500! If that old black phone gets posted here or on Facebook or on the lists or anywhere, it will not sell for $9.99 and most collectors will miss an opportunity to add it to their collection as the deep pocket buyers will put it out of reach. Now my turn to step down off the soap box.
I used to be a manual sniper, but finding that sweet spot between a short enough gap where ebay doesn't register the bid and a long enough gap where someone else can get another manual bid in was took risky. I let snipe programs do the work for me.
I keep a rule of thumb for auctions that I want to publicly mention, I only post it if it has 2 or more bids and has numerous watchers. I constantly send PMs to members about auctions if that member may be interested in bidding.
I have never used a service to snipe and I doubt I ever will, but never say never....Doug
Quote from: Doug Rose on August 14, 2016, 07:04:20 PM
I have never used a service to snipe and I doubt I ever will, but never say never....Doug
I assume you only buy stuff from your own time zone.
Jack
I've been using a sniper program for a while now. I find it to be very convenient. I can put in the amount I'm willing to spend and go about my business. I win it or I don't. I don't always have the time to sit in front of the computer waiting for the auction to end. As Jack referred to time zone, the auctions end at all hours. I don't see the sniper program as being a negative. But that's just my opinion.
Quote from: Jack Ryan on August 14, 2016, 08:00:02 PM
I assume you only buy stuff from your own time zone.
Jack
Jack....no...but if it is after my bedtime, I just bid what I want to pay. At my stage of collecting, I have the phones that I can afford that I want. I sell much more than I buy, nice second job on my terms. If it falls at what I bid...that's nice. If not tomorrow's another day at the wolds largest antique store...Doug
I never meant to sound as if I "look down" on using a sniper program, like I said I like the thrill of pushing the button. If I was smarter or kept missing the snipe due to internet connection problems, I would give up the thrill in favor of the win. Today I was planning a last minute bid on Doug's 500u, but got distracted and missed it. Things like that help me keep a few coins in the bank, I guess ;)
Quote from: Dan/Panther on August 14, 2016, 12:02:48 PM
At one point in time, we had an agreement NOT to post auctions we see, because MAYBE someone else is flying under the radar.
I would like to see that started up again.
Ditto that, but even w/o the forum agreement, I do it anyway. I never post links to auctions in progress, whether they're on ebay or somewhere else. If I have a question about the item, I will capture a picture and post it w/o giving any info about where I saw it.
Quote from: Dan/Panther on August 14, 2016, 12:02:48 PM
Another Pet Peeve is Mr. Helpful, don't contact sellers and point out errors in the listing. For example, ":You do know that phone is worth much more than you are asking".
It's up to the seller to do His/Her homework. That is how WE as collectors get deals.
JMHO.D/P
Mr. Helpful is a nuisance, for sure, and not just on ebay. A few years ago I went to buy a scratched-up black 302 for parts that I saw on Craigslist, and the seller tried to up his price because a MS. Helpful contacted him and tried to say it was worth far more than it really was. I matter-of-factly told the seller she was ill-informed and didn't know what she was talking about. I got it for the original price.
Quote from: Brinybay on August 14, 2016, 09:36:13 PM
Ditto that, but even w/o the forum agreement, I do it anyway. I never post links to auctions in progress, whether they're on ebay or somewhere else. If I have a question about the item, I will capture a picture and post it w/o giving any info about where I saw it.
Mr. Helpful is a nuisance, for sure, and not just on ebay. A few years ago I went to buy a scratched-up black 302 for parts that I saw on Craigslist, and the seller tried to up his price because a MS. Helpful contacted him and tried to say it was worth far more than it really was. I matter-of-factly told the seller she was ill-informed and didn't know what they were talking about. I got it for the original price.
I agree on both issues - except occasionally when I see a misrepresentation that might not be obvious to some.
Jack
Quote from: Doug Rose on August 14, 2016, 07:35:32 AM
If you see a phone you like on eBay, bid on it. Bid the amount you feel it is worth....or you are prepared to pay. Be prepared to be out bid, its the nature of the beast. Just because you bid on it first, doesn't mean you saw it first. Not every member knows all the other members eBay bidding codes....or cares to know. I know a few of the high rollers, like the Museum etc. Others...sorry I don't. I can't remember what I had for dinner last night...I digress 8)...Ah yes...It was steak and swordfish on the grille made by my brother in law. Outstanding!
If I outbid you, I am sorry......in my opinion you did not bid enough. Conversely I was outbid. I did not bid enough, that's how it works. Life in the fast lane, on to the next auction. I will live to bid another day. Best thing about eBay is there is another phone right around the corner.
All is fair in Love and eBay. ...Doug
Doug, I'm in agreement with you Did somebody get po'd because you outbid them? If so, they are childish. I'm another one who couldn't care less about other collector's handles. All's fair in the bidding and it's nothing personal.
Sniping is legit.
D/P
I use a sniping service on occasion. Myibidder crashed and burned on me and I had to remove it. The one I am using now is pretty good. They also help me to stay within my set limit and not get caught up in the last minute rush. Back when Ebay would put up a set user ID i would get frustrated by specific bidders. Anymore, they are Unidentified to me even between auctions. It is of no value to get honked by a competitor in an auction. They have the same right as you to participate.
Quote from: Brinybay on August 14, 2016, 09:54:24 PM
Doug, I'm in agreement with you Did somebody get po'd because you outbid them? If so, they are childish. I'm another one who couldn't care less about other collector's handles. All's fair in the bidding and it's nothing personal.
yup ..no big deal...just caught me by surprise. In Hyannis on vacation so nothing bothers me. Tremendous day at the beach...Kidtanned
Does anybody know what happens if Jack, Tom & I have the same sniping program & are bidding on the same phone with the same high bid, who wins? I don't use a sniping program yet but am considering it, because i have missed some good deals lately, just because I got distracted & missed the end of the auction. i'll be the 1st bidder or I don't bid until the end, so I don't bid up the price.
Quote from: oldguy on August 18, 2016, 06:37:13 PM
Does anybody know what happens if Jack, Tom & I have the same sniping program & are bidding on the same phone with the same high bid, who wins? I don't use a sniping program yet but am considering it, because i have missed some good deals lately, just because I got distracted & missed the end of the auction. i'll be the 1st bidder or I don't bid until the end, so I don't bid up the price.
eBay states that if identical bids are placed, the first bid placed is the winner. So, if 3 bids of the same amount come in at the exact same time, I don't know. However, auto bidders are subject to ISP access and delivery and I suspect eBay looks at time bid in less than 1 second intervals -10th, hundreths or maybe thousandths to break such ties.
Anyone know for sure?
Funny story is a I got this Strange stick on eBay because I was outbid. I was watching a 653 wall phone that had been done over by WE and had a F1 handset and a cover where the MP was. It was in excellent condition. I was outbid at the very end, a tad pissed but that's life.
eBay sent a message that this was ending soon....yeah in two minutes, so I bid and won. I think me being outbid was a good thing...really ....as I love this stick and never would have bid on it if I had won the other. Synchronicity ....Doug
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16583.0
My point being.
If you want a phone, Bid on It. If you don't want the phone, what do you get from posting on here, "Hey ! Guys look at this". ? I won the 48-500 for $220.00. Because, only a couple of us noticed something different about it. If we had posted the auction, that phone would have gone for, Who knows how much ? I look at like this, If someone has no clue what they are selling, obviously it means nothing to them. Why penalize those that do, by pointing out what it's value is, or errors in their listing. The seller has every option to do their own homework. If they want to sell something, eBay even offers, a "What is my item worth" App. I'm on a fixed income, a single Dad, I need every break I can get.
BTW, I didn't hear anyone, say anything, when I got burned a few years ago for $900.00, on a Peking Red 302. It's minty, but I took it in the shorts. The 48-500 just balanced the scales.
Please, if you are not interested in an item, keep quiet, or PM those you think may be interested. Speculating buyers, probably visit here to get tips on Great deals, or sleeper auctions. Phones going to High Dollar Japanese collectors, you can bet those phones will never see the light of day again. When I won the 48-500, we spent weeks discussing it, and now have hundreds of photo to compare it to other 500's, when the 49-500 went to a Japanese speculator a couple months back, it through a Canadian broker, we didn't even get a photo of it.
We have all the time The Lord allows us to talk about a phone we see, but aren't interested in buying, don't spoil it for the one that spends hours looking for deals. I used to deliberately search with misspelled words, to catch auction no one else might see. Now eBay auto corrects for you. If you need adviuce, PM, any number of people here for advice.
Rant over, carry on.
D/P
The same thing happened to me several years ago, Doug. I was watching a 36" Bell System building sign. It was cast aluminum, had the old bell with the BELL SYSTEM lettering in the middle and it had the ring. I was prepared to bid over $200 for it. I waited until the last couple seconds like usual and... my internet connection was frozen. By the time it recovered, I had lost the sign and it only sold for barely over $100. I still haven't seen one since that has the ring and the seller doesn't think its made of gold. I keep telling myself that the high bidder probably bid $1000 on it(so I can sleep at night!). Anyway, right as the auction for the sign had ended, Ebay gave me several links I might be interested in... one of which was this just listed Bell System flag with a BIN of $30. I never would have found it had Ebay not dropped it in my lap. ...I'm still ticked about missing the sign though! :)
---Eric
Eric....welcome back. Don't be a stranger. Great story. Great flag!!....Doug
Thanks Doug! I'll to my best to stick around. I've always enjoyed the information and company on this forum.
I'm happy with the flag. I've seen several older flags with the old logo in white on a blue flag, and generally they're pretty big. Lots of 5x8s and I even saw one that was 7x10 or something along those lines. Someday I'll pick up one of those as well, probably. I'm working on fixing up the upstairs of our building to add to our display space. Its about 20x40, wide open, and has 11' high ceilings with open rafters. Perfect for displaying large stuff like that. Anyway, I'm sorry I kindof hijacked this thread - now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
---Eric
Eric;
Great to hear from you, don't be a stranger.
D/P
Sometimes I see another bidding strategy that I think is a waste of time.
A fellow "binge sniped" presumably in an attempt to overload eBay. Six bids at the same time all of the same amount. He has feedback of 1425 so he must be an expert.
Jack
Wait a minute -
QuoteHigh Dollar Japanese collectors
Really?? Is that who I keep losing to? And they're speculating on American phones?
How on earth do you know this, D/P? What have I been missing?
And "binge sniping"?
Are they trying to block someone else's bids? I don't see how that could work, it appears to me that eBay keeps the window open just a bit longer and then analyzes the bids (time stamps?) to see who won. I made complaints to them in the past about not accepting my manual snipes when I was pretty sure they were in time (clocks synced and all that). They started asking me a bunch of questions about how I bid. At the time it sure sounded to me that I wasn't the only one. Within a few weeks, the problem went away. My bids were always accepted if on time. This was a couple of years ago, I have not had any problems since. Hmmm.....
Quote from: JimHyak on August 24, 2016, 04:47:45 PM
And "binge sniping"?
Are they trying to block someone else's bids? I don't see how that could work, it appears to me that eBay keeps the window open just a bit longer and then analyzes the bids (time stamps?) to see who won. I made complaints to them in the past about not accepting my manual snipes when I was pretty sure they were in time (clocks synced and all that). They started asking me a bunch of questions about how I bid. At the time it sure sounded to me that I wasn't the only one. Within a few weeks, the problem went away. My bids were always accepted if on time. This was a couple of years ago, I have not had any problems since. Hmmm.....
As I said "presumably in an attempt to overload eBay" and "he must be an expert" was sarcasm.
It remains though that quite a few bidders send multiple bids - same time and same amount - even when they are not sniping. In the latter case, we are meant to think that the bidder is *really* serious and they have bid to sky-high levels.
Jack
Some snipe programs send multiple snipes from different servers to make sure they get thru. I have had auction sniper send 3 bids before.
JMO,
Jim S.
Quote from: Jack Ryan on August 24, 2016, 07:38:52 PM
It remains though that quite a few bidders send multiple bids - same time and same amount - even when they are not sniping.
It is more likely that they are entering higher and higher bids, rather than the same amount. (I don't think you can bid the same amount as you have already bid). But since they are in effect bidding against themselves -- and not another bidder -- Ebay will leave their bid at the same amount it already is, if there are no other higher bidders yet.
On the other hand, sometimes a single bid is recorded by Ebay as two or three separate bids at the same time by the same bidder. This has happened to me several times.
Quote from: poplar1 on August 25, 2016, 01:29:29 AM
It is more likely that they are entering higher and higher bids, rather than the same amount. (I don't think you can bid the same amount as you have already bid). But since they are in effect bidding against themselves -- and not another bidder -- Ebay will leave their bid at the same amount it already is, if there are no other higher bidders yet.
The bids were the same amount, I bid higher and they didn't separate.
Jack