Bell Telephone Manufacturing Cie 2712 with original handset

[Matilo Telephones]

Finally, one with the original handset (2288a model)! Arrived today.

We see this model often here, but with a later model handset. Almost always the upper housing has been stripped of paint, after which it is copperplated.

The wall version (2713) is often mounted on some form of cast iron frame and given fake external bells. (Oh! The humanity!)

1927 design by Bell Telephone Manufacturing Company, Antwerp. Produced by Standard Electric subsiduarys all over the world.
In very good condition, date 5 30 (may 1930, I presume). Paintjob could be a little better, but I have seen far worse. Dial is a bit sticky. I'll oil it a bit and try if she still works.

Similar to the S&H Modell 26, it has a separate upper housing. Accessing the dial however is much more awkward than on the Modell 26, as the hookswitch is connected to it. It inhibits it to fully open, unless you unbolt it.

Got it for a very very reasonable price too. 20 euros, 7 euros shipping.

[unbeldi]

Seems like these are not too hard to find over there.

This uses the older sidetone circuit with only two windings in the coil, as the diagram reveals. Also known as booster circuit.

Is there a model number on the dial? 

[andre_janew]

Is it just me or does the dial look like an AE model?  It doesn't look right for a typical WE dial.

[unbeldi]

Is it just me or does the dial look like an AE model?  It doesn't look right for a typical WE dial.

This generation of dials was the first type produced by Western Electric in the 1910s for the Rotary Machine Switching System. the first model was the 7001 dial.  The development of the Rotary System began in 1906. In 1911, the continuation of this project was delegated to the international Western Electric division (Bell Telephone MFG) in Antwerp, Belgium.  They completed it and sold it across Europe. When the Bell System in the US finally reversed course in 1919 against its stand of using only manual switching, they opted to use an entirely new system for large cities, the Panel system, instead, which was first installed in 1915 in Newark, NJ. This system didn't use many dials on customer equipment, it was semi-automatic.

[Doug Rose]

Really Nice Arwin....same handset as my wallmount....Doug

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=14094.15

[Jack Ryan]

Western Electric's dial development is interesting,

D-8083 and No. 1 dial wasn't ready until 1916-17 or so, and the No. 2 dial was first placed on the 50AL in 1919.

The WE #1 dial was specified by US patent 1161854. It was filed on Mar. 9th, 1915 and granted on Nov. 30th, 1915. The #1 dial was designed for SxS usage and, in my view, was designed as a replacement for Automatic Electric Mercedes dials in areas where Bell had taken over independent automatic exchanges. In Nov. 1919 when Norfolk, VA was converted to auto operation the #1 dial was apparently not ready for bulk deployment and the WE telephones used there were fitted with AE dials.

The WE 7000 (European) series dial was specified by patent 1158951. It was filed on Aug. 19th, 1914 and granted on Nov. 2nd, 1915. The first deployment of subscriber dials on a Rotary exchange also took place in 1914 at Darlington in the UK; previous Rotary installations had been auto-manual.

It is not clear to me how Automatic Electric ended up with a very similar design of using a worm gear for the governor. I think Western developed it first, as Automatic Electric had very large and bulky dial designs at the time. I suspect this happened through some licensing arrangements, because for several years the Bell System actually used Automatic Electric switching gear and their dials. There are AT&T Specifications (early BSPs) which deal with AE dial maintenance.

Automatic Electric's patent for the first rotary dial specified the use of a governor – the type of governor was not indicated. The first governor was a mercury dash pot; this was followed by friction governors - first of the type WE later used in the #1 dial and then the worm drive governor we are used to seeing.

WE relied on AE and Kellogg patents for the operation of its dials and two WE patents (one a design patent) for its construction.

Jack

[Matilo Telephones]

Thanks guys

I was also wondering if there was any connection between the Siemens Modell 26 and this model. They are very similar in construction and lay out and appear in about he same year.

[Matilo Telephones]

Really Nice Arwin....same handset as my wallmount....Doug

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=14094.15

Thanks Doug, yes it is the desk version of your phone. The lower part of the housing is also the same.

For easy of production and efficiency the made a real effort to keep as many parts the same for both the desk and wall modell.

For the regular dial versions the only different parst are the feet and the upper housing shell.

[Jack Ryan]

I was also wondering if there was any connection between the Siemens Modell 26 and this model. They are very similar in construction and lay out and appear in about he same year.

Good question Arwin and one that many have asked. Another research project for you?

Jack

[Jack Ryan]

Unbeldi,

Apologies for going off on a tangent from Arwin's topic – these posts should be elsewhere but I don't know how to move them aside from reposting.

The D8083 is distinguished from the No. 1A dial in that it had only one ON make-contact just as is shown in the patent, while the No. 1A dial had a transfer switch, break and make (three springs), just like the No. 2A dial.

One would assume that and despite the number of 1A dials that have been modified and renumbered D8083, I believe that the D8083 came first – only because the only production auto equipment used by Bell at that time was from AE and the overwhelming majority of that used a series circuit. I don't know if there was a changeover version of the pre-1918 Mercedes dial – there was certainly a three spring shunt.

I imagine that the 1A was used on WE subscriber equipment after 1919 (Norfolk) and before the introduction of the #2 dial. As there are few 1A dials in captivity, this must have been a small number.

Which previous production installations existed? I have not found references to that.  Chapuis (100 Years...) lists Darlington as the first, in October 1914, so just after the patent was applied for, and the next one wasn't until two years later.

BTMC had at least one semi-automatic switch in Landskrona, Sweden in 1912. There may have been more.

Regards
Jack

[unbeldi]

Apologies for going off on a tangent from Arwin's topic – these posts should be elsewhere but I don't know how to move them aside from reposting.

I agree.   We have no powers to move posts ourselves.