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1930's telephone that i purchased question? "UPDATE"

Started by hemi71x, March 10, 2011, 08:38:06 PM

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hemi71x

I just purchased a 1930's rotary dial telephone as an antique item for the house.
I know i won't be able to make any outgoing telephone calls with it unless i purchase what i am told is called a "pulse to tone converter box."
I get incoming calls with it ok, but it doesn't "ring"
I hear the ring on my other two, regular telephone land lines in the house.
My question is there something else wrong in the phone that isn't making it ring when i get a call, or will a converter box make it ring.
Or do i have to get something else to hear a ring of an incoming phone call.
Thank's for any tips, leads, help, that you can give me.
I'm new to all this. I remember one of these old phones at grandma's
house when i was a little kid growing up in the 50's.
Jim V.

AE_Collector

Someone else will give you the full details but it doesn't ring because I don't see a ringer box / subset. These phones don't have room for a ringer inside so there needs to be a seperate ringer box with network components in it as well. Your phone might have been modified with modern (much smaller than the old days) network components in the base.

Chances are you should be able to dial with it. Most telephone companies still allow dial pulse but some don't.

Welcome to the Rotary Phone Forum!

Terry

LarryInMichigan

#2
Jim,

Welcome to the forum.  If you stick around here for a while, you will find yourself with LOTS of phones :)

The phone you bought is a Western Electric D1 base with an F1 handset.  It was referred to as a 202 in the configuration in which it was commonly wired with a subset.  This was probably the most common phone in the USA and possibly also Canada during the 1930s.  If you remove the bottom plate, you will probably see some date stamps.

Larry

Greg G.

The date on the inside of the body will have a quarter/yy stamp on it, the quarter will be in Roman numerals like the one in the picture I attached.  In this case it was the fourth quarter of 1935.  For the specific month, you may find it on the transmitter, but since handsets and transmitters can be replaced, it won't necessarily correspond with the quarter/yy stamp.  In the pictures, the transmitter happens to have a 11/35 stamp that corresponds with the IV/35 stamp.
The idea that a four-year degree is the only path to worthwhile knowledge is insane.
- Mike Row
e

hemi71x

I removed the base cover plate, and found out that it's a IV 32 date telephone.
Did a bit of pokeing around, and found out what a "ringer box" is, and looks like.
Guess i need to come up with one of those too, if i want this phone to work for that function. At least now i know what one of those things are.

GG



If you need or want a touchtone converter such as Rotatone, you may be able to mount it in the ringer box. 

If the last person who owned this phone installed a new "mini transmission network" inside it, you'll know it  because it's a modern-looking circuit board with terminal screws and components, that will be loose or attached to the baseplate.

A "ringer box" has only a bell in it, but a "subset" has the bell plus the induction coil (transformer-like thing) and condensers (capacitors) to improve the speech circuit by increasing the received volume and reducing sidetone (feedback) from the microphone to the receiver.   I'd suggest finding a subset, and then getting the correct information to wire it up.   As you can see, all the connections are made with pigtails screwed down to terminals, so it's fairly easy to service these things yourself, and keep them working for another half century or longer. 

Think about this:  America used to produce things that have lasted about 80 years and can be put back in service for another half century.  That's the kind of performance that makes an economy truly great.  We can do that again if we choose, all it takes is sufficient political will. 

jsowers

Here are two pictures of a subset I have on a 202. I didn't do the wiring, so no criticism on the lack of spade lugs, please. I would have used spades (the U-shaped connectors on the ends of the wire). As you can see, there's a network (bottom left), a capacitor (the silver thing at bottom) and the bell. At top left is a small terminal block to attach some of the wires.

This uses a 4-conductor cord to connect the phone to the subset with red-green-black-white wires. Get back to us if you need help connecting everything together.

The subset usually mounted on the wall or the baseboard (see the slots for the screws) and was hard-wired to the phone line, but you can also attach a modular line cord if you like.
Jonathan

Doug Rose

#7
Quote from: GG on March 11, 2011, 12:21:42 PM


If you need or want a touchtone converter such as Rotatone, you may be able to mount it in the ringer box.  

If the last person who owned this phone installed a new "mini transmission network" inside it, you'll know IT because it's a modern-looking circuit board with terminal screws and components, that will be loose or attached to the baseplate.

A "ringer box" has only a bell in it, but a "subset" has the bell plus the induction coil (transformer-like thing) and condensers (capacitors) to improve the speech circuit by increasing the received volume and reducing sidetone (feedback) from the microphone to the receiver.   I'd suggest finding a subset, and then getting the correct information to wire it up.   As you can see, all the connections are made with pigtails screwed down to terminals, so it's fairly easy to service these things yourself, and keep them working for another half century or longer.  

Think about this:  America used to produce things that have lasted about 80 years and can be put back in service for another half century.  That's the kind of performance that makes an economy truly great.  We can do that again if we choose, all it takes is sufficient political will.  
I think we (the Forum) should really think hard before pointing someone who is looking for information on OLD telephones to adding NEW and in my opinion, unneeded equipment to it.

If Jim V gets a subset, this eighty year old Beautiful phone will work fine on today's systems without having to add non Western Electric parts to an eighty year old phone. Jim V is asking for guidance on a eighty year old phone and should not be told to add unnecessary equipment to it. Classic Rotary Phones Forum is what we are. Lets keep the classic a classic. Did I mention, its an 80 year old phone!

Lets help Jim V and others get their old telephones in working condition and remember the "integrity" of what makes a classic a classic...Doug
Kidphone

Sargeguy

You want a Western Electric 634A subset or a 684A subset.  You will also need a subset cord.  A 534A will do in a pinch, as will a 295A. A ringer box will not help you dial out.  They sell for around $50 on eBay
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

hemi71x

Hi everyone.
After plugging around with all this, i located one of those "subsets" as it's called, to get this old phone in fully operational condition. It's here in California, probably a hundred miles away from me. So i think i lucked out.
But i'm still going to need one of those "Pulse to tone converter" black boxes to work on Sacramento's A T & T modern phone lines.
I'll hold off on ordering up one of those until my eBay car parts sales pick up, for me to have some extra playing around money.
No matter what you get into, it's gonna cost you some money.

Phonesrfun

Are you absolutely sure you need a pulse to tone converter? 

If, by chance you attached your phone to the phone line directly using the red and green wires without using a subset, and tried to dial out, you would not be able to break dial tone.  If that is what is leading you to think you need a rotatone, then wait until you have the subset.



Oh, and welcome to the forum.
-Bill G

hemi71x

I got one of those automated voice messages after the "do do too" tone, as i call it, and then the voice that said, your call could not be completed as dialed.
So that's how i figured out my old phone isn't set up for modern day technology phone systems.

Dennis Markham

Quote from: Doug Rose on March 11, 2011, 06:05:00 PM[
If Jim V gets a subset, this eighty year old Beautiful phone will work fine on today's systems without having to add non Western Electric parts to an eighty year old phone. Jim V is asking for guidance on a eighty year old phone and should not be told to add unnecessary equipment to it. Classic Rotary Phones Forum is what we are. Lets keep the classic a classic. Did I mention, its an 80 year old phone!

Lets help Jim V and others get their old telephones in working condition and remember the "integrity" of what makes a classic a classic...Doug

Doug, I didn't read GG's posting the same way you did I don't think.  He DID suggest that Jim locate a subset to connect to his phone.  He described a mini network to Jim in the event he found one inside his newly acquired telephone.  He did indicate a Rotatone may work inside a subset if he wanted or needed one (after getting a subset).

I am on the same page as you when it comes to installing a Rotatone in any of my phones.  I don't want one because I don't need one.  But that may be a viable option for someone, whether it be necessity or convenience.  Nothing about a Rotatone is permanent, like drilling a hole for a lamp fixture.  In order for one to make in informed decision it's nice to have all the information.  Hopefully enough people weigh in on various discussions so that one person's opinion isn't accepted as gospel by an inexperienced collector.  To me a lack of contradictory response may be an indication of general agreement with whomever commented. 

Jim I do think you may be jumping to conclusions that you have to have a Rotatone in order to make your phone work.  Connecting the phone to a subset and then to the phone line may be all you need.


HarrySmith

I agree, I read all the posts as possibilities and options. I also agree before doing anything else get a proper subset connected properly and then see. The phone should work fine. Can you post a picture of the inside of the base?
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

hemi71x

I'm going to wait for that subset box thing to get here, and then see what happens.
Wasn't to thrilled about paying $70.00 for one of those converter thingies anyway, so if i don't have to, i'll be a happy camper.