pick up bar AE40

[unbeldi]

I don't think your phone is from late 40's, more like early 40's. It most likely originally came with a dial, almost fir sure a numbers only dial and it would have been a 24A36 in the early 40's.

Your phone was probably refurbished sometime from the early 50's on. The dial was likely replaced with this one, possibly due to a problem with the original dial or maybe to upgrade it to a Metropolitan (numbers and letters) dial or maybe to upgrade the dial to the type with bifurcated contacts.

At tge time of the refurb the carry bar had become the standard so that was replaced as well but they didn't worry too much about keeping everything Chrome for whatever reason.

Terry

This is what I suggested earlier too.
But the number card is highly suspect.  I don't think it was on that dial when the telephone was taken out of service.

[recrum]

Ok, indeed twin-contact dial springs assembly.  These were introduced with the No. 51A dial in ca. 1954, and were available as a replacement part.


I see you have a schematic in the set also.  It should verify the stamping on the bottom.
Which form (D-) number is it?

Yes it matches the base code.  D# is D-53688 issue 6

[unbeldi]

Yes it matches the base code.  D# is D-53688 issue 6

Ok, that diagram and issue number is typical for the 4020 and 4022 sets in early 1940s.

[AE_Collector]

You have sure found your share of early AE 40's.

Something else we can watch for with base coding is absence is presence of the two extra terminals 4 & 5. These would not be included in the schematics of early phones that don't have them thus they should have different base model codes just for this small change, shouldn't they?

Terry

[recrum]

I don't think your phone is from late 40's, more like early 40's. It most likely originally came with a dial, almost for certain a numbers only dial and it would have been a 24A36 in the early 40's.

Your phone was probably refurbished sometime from the early 50's on. The dial was likely replaced with this one, possibly due to a problem with the original dial or maybe to upgrade it to a Metropolitan (numbers and letters) dial or maybe to upgrade the dial to the type with bifurcated contacts.

At the time of the refurb the carry bar had become the standard so that was replaced as well but they didn't worry too much about keeping everything Chrome for whatever reason.

That 40 that you have or had with the rod between the cradle blocks has to be a modification done by a telco's refurb shops or an individual. I have never seen that before. It is possible that someone came up with that before the carry bar was designed or maybe as an inexpensive replacement for missing butlers handles.

Terry

I've only every seen the rod one other time.  And now being able to compare pics of a 51a with a 24a36 I now see what you guys are talking about!  I've seen the butlers handle.  Now is it true that there were actually a redesign of it that was keyed so it wouldn't pop out of it's holes?

[recrum]

I don't know how far you guys have come with deciphering the base codes but any idea what 4FR would mean?

[AE_Collector]

I guess that another possibility with the Chrome is that someone moved parts around to create a chromed phone. Caps and/or the entire dial may have been moved to create a chromed 40 though they must not have had a Chrome carry bar.

To date we have not the slightest clue as to how Chrome (or gold matte) trim fits into the coding on the AE phones or if it does at all. But I would assume that generally a phone would be chromed or not chromed from the factory. A dial fingerwheel would be chromed to go with Chrome handset bands and most likely the carry bar/blocks/butler handle as well.

Plungers? ...maybe but there were also black Bakelite plungers used so they may not have worried about it to that level, the same as the finger stop that is always Chrome. I don't think I have seen a black finger stop...or have I?

Terry

[AE_Collector]

I don't know how far you guys have come with deciphering the base codes but any idea what 4FR would mean?

The jury is still out on that but the two letters FR part of that code seems to be a date code of some sort. If the phone hasn't been messed with too much you will likely find FR on other components as well. The digit (4 in thus example) seems to point at either an assembly line or shift at a specific plant. This is just where our thoughts have brought us to so far but we have nothing further on how to decipher these codes.

Looking back in the topic....what is 4FR on? The base?

PS: I will likely move this topic to the AE Code breaking area of the forum soon since that is where tge discussion has gone to.

Terry

[Jim Stettler]

I guess that another possibility with the Chrome is that someone moved parts around to create a chromed phone. Caps and/or the entire dial may have been moved to create a chromed 40 though they must not have had a Chrome carry bar.

I think this is a very BIG factor. I think a lot of AE 40's  have been "pimped" over the years.
JMO,
Jim S.

[unbeldi]

You have sure found your share of early AE 40's.

Something else we can watch for with base coding is absence is presence of the two extra terminals 4 & 5. These would not be included in the schematics of early phones that don't have them thus they should have different base model codes just for this small change, shouldn't they?

Terry

Certainly true.  D-53688 does not have them. At least not to Issue 6.  The ringer wire goes directly to the hook switch.

[unbeldi]

I guess that another possibility with the Chrome is that someone moved parts around to create a chromed phone. Caps and/or the entire dial may have been moved to create a chromed 40 though they must not have had a Chrome carry bar.

To date we have not the slightest clue as to how Chrome (or gold matte) trim fits into the coding on the AE phones or if it does at all. But I would assume that generally a phone would be chromed or not chromed from the factory. A dial fingerwheel would be chromed to go with Chrome handset bands and most likely the carry bar/blocks/butler handle as well.

Plungers? ...maybe but there were also black Bakelite plungers used so they may not have worried about it to that level, the same as the finger stop that is always Chrome. I don't think I have seen a black finger stop...or have I?

Terry

I am certain the coding has nothing to do with chrome trims, carry bars, etc.

[AE_Collector]

I am certain the coding has nothing to do with chrome trims, carry bars, etc.

There really isn't anything left in the coding to cover metal trim or lack of it. There seems to be a lot of "dial code letters" for some reason so a very remote chance that they tied the fingerwheel finish to the dial letters and logically handset rings would match the dial. But, I don't think so. I was just looking at early AE80 dial order codes that had the usual A for numbers only, B for blank, C for Metropolitan and then continued with D and E for the two SATT dials. This is a change from the 40/50 series where the 4 letter code varied to indicate dial variations.

I have noticed an unusually large number of colored sets where the four number circuit code (4123 for example) is 4124 or 4125. (Virtually) All colored sets had metal trim so it seems a little suspicious that many of them are one or two numbers higher. But, even though trim can be moved, there are still too many examples that don't fit this pattern.

Terry

[poplar1]

Something else we can watch for with base coding is absence is presence of the two extra terminals 4 & 5. These would not be included in the schematics of early phones that don't have them thus they should have different base model codes just for this small change, shouldn't they?

Terry

Certainly true.  D-53688 does not have them. At least not to Issue 6.  The ringer wire goes directly to the hook switch.

Since there are screw terminals on the older type ringers, then it seems the 4 and 5 terminals are not necessary: The ringer can still be swapped out without a soldering iron.
Or, do some AE 40s have both 4 & 5 terminals + screw terminals on the ringer?

[unbeldi]

Since there are screw terminals on the older type ringers, then it seems the 4 and 5 terminals are not necessary: The ringer can still be swapped out without a soldering iron.
Or, do some AE 40s have both 4 & 5 terminals + screw terminals on the ringer?

These terminals were not only used for ringer connections, but also needed for sets that had an extra push button by the cradle.  So, yes there are sets that have a low-impedance ringer still with the screw terminals and have the case terminals already too.