I recently purchased a Kellogg wooden wall phone. It is the style designated in the Kellogg catalogs as a hotel phone or a residence phone. It is the size of a ringer box with a transmitter attached on a very short arm. It seems to be fairly early using a transmitter of the same style shown in the 1903 catalog-- patent dates on the front. The switch hook, transmitter arm, and lightning arrester also appear to be the same style as in that catalog. The mouthpiece appears to be steel coated in hard rubber. The number stamped on the top of the phone is 2034S.
I purchased this phone as a box of parts. The previous owner had disassembled it for restoration then lost interest. The box also had half a dozen switch hook escutcheons, and a few other odd pieces. I assumed I was missing the generator but I seldom run into this style of cabinet and the price was right.
However I am now puzzled. There is a hole in the side of the cabinet for the generator crank as well as the appropriate divot in the telephone back to accommodate the large magneto gear. However there are absolutely no holes in the bottom for mounting a standard Kellogg magneto. There are also no holes at the appropriate height in the back for mounting the back brace used with a Kellogg magneto of this age. I also noticed that there are no nail holes where a crank escutcheon would be mounted. Wiring cannot provide a clue since the previous owner removed all wiring as part of his disassembly.
So my question is this-- did Kellogg ever supply this style of telephone with a ringer but no magneto? I have not seen a letter following a Kellogg four digit number before such as my 2034S. Is that a clue?
Anyway if you all can provide some wisdom I would appreciate it. Looks like I still need to find an induction coil and I borrowed a non-Kellogg receiver temporarily from another project, but I am still happy with my phone assembled from a box of parts.
Thanks!
Steve
Nice looking phone. The wood's been refreshed but looks good as does the metal surfaces.
Yes, missing a few internal parts but a very nice start to getting this phone back to original working condition.
Did you get a small magneto and coil in the box of parts?
Thanks! I refreshed the wood and cleaned the metal parts. Everything was pretty nasty and in pieces, thus the low price at an estate sale. Unfortunately no induction coil, and no generator. Since there appeared to be no generator mounting holes as I see on similar Kellogg ringer boxes or nail holes for a crank escutcheon I am perplexed about the generator.
Steve
You phone looks very similar to the top box of a Kellogg two boxer wall phone. The below image shows the generator mounted to the back of the box on a plate in front of the switch hook.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Vintage-Kellogg-Walnut-Wood-Double-Box-Wall-Crank-Phone-Excellent-Cond-/172906543648
Agreed, it even has the cutout in the back for the gear.
Here are two diagrams, similar but different and may or may not help with this phone.
Thanks all and thanks for the schematics. Yes, I wonder if this was a common battery arrangement at one time. I wish the earlier owner would have left the wiring in place. I am just a little dumbfounded that there is a hole for a magneto crank but absolutely no evidence of any mounting holes for the magneto. Unless it was duct taped in I don't see how a magneto was ever installed from the factory, however I am not a phone expert.
Thanks for the photo from eBay. Yes, as soon as I got this phone I started collecting pictures of Kellogg phones from past and present eBay listings to sort out what looked original. I also pulled up the Kellogg catalogs which folks have kindly scanned and put on the Internet.
By the way, does anyone have an idea about the "S" at the end of the part number or schematic number that is stamped on the top of my phone? I see the four digit numbers stamped on the top on photos of many other Kellogg phones of the same vintage, and also see them in the 1903 catalog that is online. Since my number is either 2034S or 2084S I have wondered if the S might mean something such as special. Anyway in the absence of mounting holes I remain dumbfounded. I will look for an induction coil but hold off on the generator until I figure this out.
Thanks again.
Steve
In the eBay picture yopu can see a bracket coming up behind the magneto with 2 screws in it. There are holes in the back of yours that appear to be in the same location. Maybe that is how it mounts?
I saw that. I measured. I don't have any holes at that height.
Steve
Here is another two boxer with the top box looking very similar to yours except for the transmitter which in later years would have been easy to add to make it a "hotel" phone.
The attached PDF contains a wealth of wiring diagrams which I have not looked at in any detail. One may work for you.
The PDF was posted at the Kellogg site:
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/strombergcarlson/kellogg/kellogg_main.htm
at this link (image from page 22)
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/strombergcarlson/kellogg/PDF/1909_BLTN_38_MAG_TEL_SETS.pdf
A Residence Type Phone is on page 24 showing the transmitter on the front but no open image available. The wiring diagrams for the residence phone are on page 25.
Thanks John!
To me, it seems the magneto would have mounted with the 2 holes in the backboard inside the box, next to the cutout for the gear. However, I have never seen one just mounted with those holes and not also secured at the bottom. Just an idea. I don't see how else a magneto would of been installed if it had one from the factory.
Quote from: Holtzer-Cabot on October 24, 2017, 12:57:51 PM
To me, it seems the magneto would have mounted with the 2 holes in the backboard inside the box, next to the cutout for the gear. However, I have never seen one just mounted with those holes and not also secured at the bottom. Just an idea. I don't see how else a magneto would of been installed if it had one from the factory.
Based on the location of the crank hole in this image, I can only guess that the magneto for this box would be thin, front to back, with plenty of room to fit in behind the hook switch and the back board.
(http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19006.0;attach=169873;image)
The magneto does not necessary have to be "bolted" to the bottom. It could be screwed down from the top just to hold it in place with the bottom of the box and the back plate screwed or bolted to the back providing the solid mounting for cranking. The crank turns clockwise so the top of the back bracket is where the pressure would be the greatest as long as the bottom is kept from moving.
More images showing the inside bottom and measuring the space from the back of the hook switch to the back board would help see how much space is really there for a magneto. It looks like a deep box, how deep is the question. I have yet to find that information anywhere in the Kellogg documents.
You're right! It does seem like a deeper box to me, and that would be very helpful to see! Hopefully we get more pictures to go from, because i'm curious about the magneto! I'm sure it had to have been mounted from the back bracket to the backboard. This box seems deeper than my 1903 Stromberg-Carlson phone I have.
Thank you John and Holtzer-Cabot. Sorry for the delay, it has been a busy week.
The interior of the box is 4 ½ inches deep.
The center of the crank hole is 3 ½ inches from the interior bottom of the box and 1 ½ inches from the rear of the box (not including the cutout to accommodate the gear).
I have carefully examined the holes in the rear of the box to see if which are screw holes and which are holes for wire to pass through. I have found no obvious holes for wood screws nor large holes for machine screws. The only idiosyncrasy I can find are some small holes about even with the center of the crank, which I think may be hidden behind a generator in such a way that they would not be mounting holes.
When I purchased this I began collecting photos of every similar Kellogg product from past and present eBay listings. From what I can tell this seems to be about the same dimensions as a standard Kellogg ringer box with switch hook from that age. Just know standard holes in the bottom for machine screws, no holes for wood screws for the bracket typically found on a Kellogg magneto of that age, and no holes for escutcheon nails at the crank hole.
I tried posting additional photos, but things keep hanging up when I try.
You're welcome! Wow, very strange!
I can't see how a magneto would have ever been in this box then, especially without nail holes by the crank hole. I wonder if this box could of been assembled from spare parts? But I still don't understand why it would have a crank hole and no magneto, with no evidence of a magneto ever being installed in the box. Does the crank hold look factory? It is cut nice and clean? I have seen some people modify an intercom phone and drill a hole and install a dummy crank, to make it look like a magneto phone.
Yes, I can't imagine why there would be a crank hole if no generator was to be installed. I just took a flashlight to the hole and it looks well done as if it is a factory job. I still wonder if the "S" at the end of the four digit schematic number has any meaning-- like special. But that would not explain the hole. I cannot imagine that anything would've shipped with an unused hole that large in the side. It would've either not been drilled, or it would have been plugged.
Steve
Very true! Truly odd. I've never seen this before. I would think too that the hole would of at least been plugged. I wonder if anyone else here will have any more ideas!
Based on all info from this thread, for me it looks like this one: (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19006.0;attach=169975;image)
It may even look like it has had the button on top of the left side.
You are missing a lot of parts, but the finish makes it look pretty original, so what do you want to do?
Bild it up with other parts being a refurbed magneto telephone, just leave it with the exterior finish? or add some parts and use it on your P.O.T.S or SIP -line? (if you have) (Or even a Bluetooth adapter?)
In the most extreme modernizing, you may put in a mini-network a new transmitter capsule and even a receiver capsule. An external keypad hidden somewhere may let you dial out.
What is actually your goal?
dsk
This magneto currently on eBay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kellogg-telephone-magneto-with-crank-handle/152763589330
has a narrow side profile, 4 bars and only 4 holes in the back plate to mount it to the wood case. The bottom is not shown but the images show a bottom plate smaller than the magnets with no mounting "ears" protruding and no way to get bolts "through" the bottom. As such, it looks like it just would sit in the back corner held in place by the two upper mounting holes.
Also, the crank is withing the gear radius and as such would allow turning but with limited clearance between the wood case and the wall, unless it was mounted on a back board, as with a 2 piece wall phone, providing another inch or so of clearance.
Thanks John and DSK,
Yes, from the catalog information I have seen that catalog photo is my phone except with the generator. From my measurements my phone would take a standard size Kellogg generator just like the one on eBay. I really don't want to drill holes to install a generator if one was not already there, although it annoys me to have a crank hole without a generator. From my research into Kellogg phones of this age it would seem that every generator I have found uses bolt holes at the bottom of the generator and most use wood screws on that attachment plate you see on the eBay unit to secure the generator to the back of the phone. My point is that my box does not have either set of holes on the bottom or the back.
Yes I am missing parts, but primarily the induction coil unless I am mistaken about the generator. My plan is to restore the phone to its original electrical condition and perhaps connect it to my other magneto phones (granddaughter loves ringing the bells). The case did not start out in the condition you see, but I was able to enhance the original finish enough that I could save it.
Again, thanks for your input. I am not primarily a phone collector, so I need the wisdom of this group.
Steve
The pictures of the other phones seems to hang the generator with 2 wooden screws in the height of the top of the big gear or the top of the magnets. I can not see any marks on your back wall after those. If you don't either you may be right about that is not the way your generator has been fixed to the cabinet.
dsk
I cna confirm that. I have a 1903 Stromberg-Carlson candlestick with magneto ringer box, and the magneto is secured with 4 machine screws on the bottom, and 2 wood screws on the bracket for the backboard.
This parts list view of a "similar" Kellogg magneto shows two ears on the base, the generator housing, front and back.
Not 4 but 2 which corresponds to a lot of images I've seen showing one front and one rear bolt on the bottom of the box.
I have seen that too. Some magnetos are held in with 4 bolts like mine, and others have 2 bolts. Some smaller magnetos only use one center bolt on the bottom.