Kellogg Hotel/Residence Phone Generator Question

[Rexophone]

I recently purchased a Kellogg wooden wall phone. It is the style designated in the Kellogg catalogs as a hotel phone or a residence phone. It is the size of a ringer box with a transmitter attached on a very short arm. It seems to be fairly early using a transmitter of the same style shown in the 1903 catalog-- patent dates on the front. The switch hook, transmitter arm, and lightning arrester also appear to be the same style as in that catalog. The mouthpiece appears to be steel coated in hard rubber. The number stamped on the top of the phone is 2034S.

I purchased this phone as a box of parts. The previous owner had disassembled it for restoration then lost interest. The box also had half a dozen switch hook escutcheons, and a few other odd pieces. I assumed I was missing the generator but I seldom run into this style of cabinet and the price was right.

However I am now puzzled. There is a hole in the side of the cabinet for the generator crank as well as the appropriate divot in the telephone back to accommodate the large magneto gear. However there are absolutely no holes in the bottom for mounting a standard Kellogg magneto. There are also no holes at the appropriate height in the back for mounting the back brace used with a Kellogg magneto of this age. I also noticed that there are no nail holes where a crank escutcheon would be mounted. Wiring cannot provide a clue since the previous owner removed all wiring as part of his disassembly.

So my question is this-- did Kellogg ever supply this style of telephone with a ringer but no magneto? I have not seen a letter following a Kellogg four digit number before such as my 2034S. Is that a clue?

Anyway if you all can provide some wisdom I would appreciate it. Looks like I still need to find an induction coil and I borrowed a non-Kellogg receiver temporarily from another project, but I am still happy with my phone assembled from a box of parts.

Thanks!

Steve

[TelePlay]

Nice looking phone. The wood's been refreshed but looks good as does the metal surfaces.

Yes, missing a few internal parts but a very nice start to getting this phone back to original working condition.

Did you get a small magneto and coil in the box of parts?

[Rexophone]

Thanks!  I refreshed the wood and cleaned the metal parts.  Everything was pretty nasty and in pieces, thus the low price at an estate sale.  Unfortunately no induction coil, and no generator.  Since there appeared to be no generator mounting holes as I see on similar Kellogg ringer boxes or nail holes for a crank escutcheon I am perplexed about the generator.

Steve

[TelePlay]

You phone looks very similar to the top box of a Kellogg two boxer wall phone. The below image shows the generator mounted to the back of the box on a plate in front of the switch hook.

     http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Vintage-Kellogg-Walnut-Wood-Double-Box-Wall-Crank-Phone-Excellent-Cond-/172906543648

[HarrySmith]

Agreed, it even has the cutout in the back for the gear.

[TelePlay]

Here are two diagrams, similar but different and may or may not help with this phone.

[Rexophone]

Thanks all and thanks for the schematics.  Yes, I wonder if this was a common battery arrangement at one time.  I wish the earlier owner would have left the wiring in place.  I am just a little dumbfounded that there is a hole for a magneto crank but absolutely no evidence of any mounting holes for the magneto.  Unless it was duct taped in I don't see how a magneto was ever installed from the factory, however I am not a phone expert.

Thanks for the photo from eBay.  Yes, as soon as I got this phone I started collecting pictures of Kellogg phones from past and present eBay listings to sort out what looked original.  I also pulled up the Kellogg catalogs which folks have kindly scanned and put on the Internet.

By the way, does anyone have an idea about the "S" at the end of the part number or schematic number that is stamped on the top of my phone?  I see the four digit numbers stamped on the top on photos of many other Kellogg phones of the same vintage, and also see them in the 1903 catalog that is online.  Since my number is  either 2034S or 2084S I have wondered if the S might mean something such as special.  Anyway in the absence of mounting holes I remain dumbfounded.  I will look for an induction coil but hold off on the generator until I figure this out.

Thanks again.

Steve

[HarrySmith]

In the eBay picture yopu can see a bracket coming up behind the magneto with 2 screws in it. There are holes in the back of yours that appear to be in the same location. Maybe that is how it mounts?

[Rexophone]

I saw that.  I measured.  I don't have any holes at that height.

Steve

[TelePlay]

Here is another two boxer with the top box looking very similar to yours except for the transmitter which in later years would have been easy to add to make it a "hotel" phone.

The attached PDF contains a wealth of wiring diagrams which I have not looked at in any detail. One may work for you.

The PDF was posted at the Kellogg site:

     http://www.telephonecollectors.info/strombergcarlson/kellogg/kellogg_main.htm

at this link (image from page 22)

     http://www.telephonecollectors.info/strombergcarlson/kellogg/PDF/1909_BLTN_38_MAG_TEL_SETS.pdf

A Residence Type Phone is on page 24 showing the transmitter on the front but no open image available. The wiring diagrams for the residence phone are on page 25.

[Rexophone]

Thanks John!

[Holtzer-Cabot]

To me, it seems the magneto would have mounted with the 2 holes in the backboard inside the box, next to the cutout for the gear. However, I have never seen one just mounted with those holes and not also secured at the bottom. Just an idea. I don't see how else a magneto would of been installed if it had one from the factory.

[TelePlay]

To me, it seems the magneto would have mounted with the 2 holes in the backboard inside the box, next to the cutout for the gear. However, I have never seen one just mounted with those holes and not also secured at the bottom. Just an idea. I don't see how else a magneto would of been installed if it had one from the factory.

Based on the location of the crank hole in this image, I can only guess that the magneto for this box would be thin, front to back, with plenty of room to fit in behind the hook switch and the back board.



The magneto does not necessary have to be "bolted" to the bottom. It could be screwed down from the top just to hold it in place with the bottom of the box and the back plate screwed or bolted to the back providing the solid mounting for cranking. The crank turns clockwise so the top of the back bracket is where the pressure would be the greatest as long as the bottom is kept from moving.

More images showing the inside bottom and measuring the space from the back of the hook switch to the back board would help see how much space is really there for a magneto. It looks like a deep box, how deep is the question. I have yet to find that information anywhere in the Kellogg documents.

[Holtzer-Cabot]

You're right! It does seem like a deeper box to me, and that would be very helpful to see! Hopefully we get more pictures to go from, because i'm curious about the magneto! I'm sure it had to have been mounted from the back bracket to the backboard. This box seems deeper than my 1903 Stromberg-Carlson phone I have.

[Rexophone]

Thank you John and Holtzer-Cabot.  Sorry for the delay, it has been a busy week.

The interior of the box is 4 ½ inches deep.

The center of the crank hole is 3 ½ inches from the interior bottom of the box and 1 ½ inches from the rear of the box (not including the cutout to accommodate the gear).

I have carefully examined the holes in the rear of the box to see if which are screw holes and which are holes for wire to pass through.  I have found no obvious holes for wood screws nor large holes for machine screws.  The only idiosyncrasy I can find are some small holes about even with the center of the crank, which I think may be hidden behind a generator in such a way that they would not be mounting holes.

When I purchased this I began collecting photos of every similar Kellogg product from past and present eBay listings.  From what I can tell this seems to be about the same dimensions as a standard Kellogg ringer box with switch hook from that age.  Just know standard holes in the bottom for machine screws, no holes for wood screws for the bracket typically found on a Kellogg magneto of that age, and no holes for escutcheon nails at the crank hole.


I tried posting additional photos, but things keep hanging up when I try.