Need help with this Western Electric 193G Payphone

[wds]

What model is this payphone?  Seller says it's right out of a phone booth and all original.  It seems odd that it doesn't have a coin release button.

[LarryInMichigan]

It may be a 193G.  The number should be in vermillion ink on the back.  If it is genuine, I would guess that it is worth $300-$400 or more.

Larry

[WesternElectricBen]

I may be wrong, but I thought all payphones like that had a G type handset? Or was that just for the 233 model?

Ben

[wds]

Why wouldn't this phone have a coin return button?

[Phonesrfun]

WDS:  Earlier ones like the 193 and prior did not have coin return buttons.  The lack of a pull bucket on the coin return is also indicative of the earlier phone.  there were several versions of the 19X series so, to get an exact model would require looking inside.

Ben:  Like any other WE phone, the G handset did not come out until the early 1950's.  Prior to those, they had F handsets and were electrically the equivalent of a 302.

[wds]

Phone came today - haven't had time to play with it yet, but I took a couple pictures.  Dated 1947, 193G.  I got a dial tone when i plugged it in, and the coin drops all work like they should.  Came with upper and lower locks, and keys.  All I need is a coin box.  Anyone know what kind of coin box I need to look for?  I'll post better pictures after the football game! 

[Phonesrfun]

WDS:

Looks like you got a couple of replies on the TCI listserv regarding your pay phone.  One of those was R. Koch, who asked a very interesting question, and that was the odd, albeit original looking switch where the coin relay would normally go.

[wds]

Thanks, I responded to both messages.  The date ranges on the parts of the phone are pretty close - The upper lock is marked 10G, lower lock is a 30A.   I pulled some dates off the insides - Upper Housing Coin Chure 11-6-51.  Upper Housing IV 47.  Coil I 49.  Lower Housing Coin Chute IV 48.  Transmitter element 12-41.  Transmitter cap 9-51.  Receiver element 11-25-46.  Nice close range of dates. 

[Phonesrfun]

I thought I'd post this in this forum in order that all may know.  Otherwise, the information that was posted in the TCI forum might not make here.

Mike Davis posted a listserv reply that had a link to an article that he once wrote explaining the interesting switch.  Apparently a common feature.  As you noted in the listserv, the BSP you downloaded had the exact switch shown in one of the photo examples.

That particular phone was used in automatic post-pay service.  In post pay service the call is dialed before any money is placed in the phone.  Therefore, the money is not held in escrow in order to place the call as is the case in prepay.

Once the call has been dialed, the coin is deposited which interrupts the connection and places a momentary resistance [the coil] between the line and ground, which signals to the central office that the coin has been inserted, which allows the connection to continue and the call proceeds.

He goes on to say that all coins deposited are directed to the coin vault and collected.  No provision for returning money deposited.  He went on to say that the only coins that would go into the coin return chute are those that are dropped into the wrong slot.  I.E a dime deposited in the nickel or quarter slot or a nickel deposited in the quarter slot.

[wds]

Here's the article he wrote - exactly what I needed.

http://atcaonline.com/WE183.html

After reading the article, I played some more with the phone.  If I drop a coin in the wrong slot, it drops out into the coin return chute.  If I drop coins in the correct slots, I could hear the bells and gongs ringing in the receiver.  I did not however hear that momentary pause in the dial tone. 

[Phonesrfun]

.....If I drop coins in the correct slots, I could hear the bells and gongs ringing in the receiver.  I did not however hear that momentary pause in the dial tone. 

I am not a payphone expert, but there are perhaps two possibilities

(a) The phone needs to be connected to a legacy payphone line circuit at the central office
(b) The phone has been wired to bypass this feature
(c) Both

With (b), particularly, you would not want it to give an interruption to the line in modern times while connected to regular phone service because it might cause the CO to interpret it as a hang-up and give you fresh dial tone.  If you had already been on a call, you would lose the call.

[wds]

I noticed that one of the relays has been strapped - see picture.  Maybe this was done to bypass that momentary pause as you suggested.  Otherwise the phone works perfectly and I'm quite pleased.  Nice to have a payphone that works on my phone service without having to make any modifications to the phone. 

[poplar1]

There's no relay, just a 31A diode, a 63 CH coil, and a normally closed contact, all  paralleled together, and the group in series with the line. As long as the line is poled correctly, current should flow through the diode when the contacts open momentarily.

See 506-430-402 in the TCI library:

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/3049-506-430-402-i2-coin-collectors-postpay-193g-h-198g-h-tl

[Phonesrfun]

I noticed that one of the relays has been strapped - see picture.

There's no relay, just a 31A diode, a 63 CH coil, and a normally closed contact, all  paralleled together, and the group in series with the line. As long as the line is poled correctly, current should flow through the diode when the contacts open momentarily.

David:

Did you see the black wire-tie that appears to be there to keep the contacts on the coin switch from operating?  Until I clicked on the picture for the enlarged version I did not see it.   I believe this is what wds was referring to when he said "relay".

[poplar1]

OK, I see the Ty Wrap now. Since most lines no longer reverse battery on answer, I believe it's possible to do away with the ty wrap.