WE 653 Giving me fits, HELP!

[Butch Harlow]

If you connect the ringer to GND and K, the 1 uF capacitor to K and L2, and the line to GND and L2, will it ring? (This disconnects the talking path,)

YES!!!

[poplar1]

2. I would try moving the (red) ringer wire and the (red) line cord wire from GND back to L1, but disconnect all the other wires on the 101A induction coil for now. It should still ring.

3. Then, I would connect the receiver directly to GN and R on the 101A. Move black capacitor wire to L2 of 101A. Connect red capacitor wire on C of 101A.
You should not have a dial tone, but rather a "monitor" state, like the butt set when on MON. On a central office line, you would hear a slight hum in the background. If another phone on the same line goes off hook, then you would hear dial tone on the 653's receiver. You could also hear the other phone dialing out; it would not prevent even a rotary phone on the same line from dialing out. You should even be able to hear audible 20 cycle ringback on the 653 receiver but you won't be able to interrupt the ringing .(This is the same as removing the transmitter on a 302, which creates a "monitor" condition when the 302 is off-hook.)

4. If both 2 and 3 above are OK, then connect the transmitter directly to L2 and R on the induction coil. You should be able to transmit and hear dial tone in the receiver. (But you won't be able to hang up or dial out yet.)

[Butch Harlow]

Butch...if this has been covered...sorry. I am checking the dial connections and I see a Northern from '56. I thought you were using a WE 4H to be period and manufacturer correct.  By chance are the pics from your old set up before the 4H. ....Doug

The drawing calls for a 5H, when I got nothing from the 4H I switched to this dial for testing purposes. If and when the problem is remedied I am switching back to the 4H. From what I understand the H is what is important and the 4H is in much sweeter physical condition than the 5H.

[Butch Harlow]

2. I would try moving the (red) ringer wire and the (red) line cord wire from GND back to L1, but disconnect all the other wires on the 101A induction coil for now. It should still ring.

It fails this test...however, the green line connection is not connected. I tried putting it on L2 with no result. If I put it on GND where the red wire was I get a line light on the Panasonic monitor phone as if it's off hook.

[poplar1]

Quote from: poplar1 on Yesterday at 21:44:46
If you connect the ringer to GND and K, the 1 uF capacitor to K and L2, and the line to GND and L2, will it ring? (This disconnects the talking path,)


YES!!!
[/quote]

YES!!!

Take the 2 wires (ringer and line cord) that are on GND in above (where ringer works) and move them to L1. Sorry, I wasn't thinking when I told you to disconnect all the other wires from the 101A: You should leave the other line cord wire on L2, the yellow capacitor wire on L2, but disconnect the other wires from the induction coil for now, just to check the ringer. (It should work since even if there is a problem with the induction coil, all we are doing is using the L1 terminal and L2 blind terminal. (Blind terminal means there is no electrical connection between the L2 terminal and the windings of the induction coil.)

[Butch Harlow]

Take the 2 wires (ringer and line cord) that are on GND in above (where ringer works) and move them to L1. Sorry, I wasn't thinking when I told you to disconnect all the other wires from the 101A: You should leave the other line cord wire on L2, the yellow capacitor wire on L2, but disconnect the other wires from the induction coil for now, just to check the ringer. (It should work since even if there is a problem with the induction coil, all we are doing is using the L1 terminal and L2 blind terminal. (Blind terminal means there is no electrical connection between the L2 terminal and the windings of the induction coil.)

Ok, that'll be this evening, my silly day job is getting in the way of my fun again. Haha! I will report my findings this evening.

[Butch Harlow]

Ok, I have results from all that:

Modified step 2: Ringer working.

Step 3: no dial tone heard, took other phone off hook, still no tone. Did not hear dial out. Can hear ring back through receiver hooked to GN and R.

Step 4: still hear no dialtone or dial out,  no transmitter.

In all cases I hear ring back and the ringer works, loud and clear.

*** I am using the Panasonic and dialing from my VoIP line into my C*net line to connect. Both phones plugged into the Panasonic. ***


Thanks for the continued assistance, I swear I am having fun doing this. I didn't sleep well last night and dreamt about phones most of the night. A sure sign I am obsessed with this thing.

[poplar1]

It appears there is no continuity through the transmitter. Either the wires or the transmitter itself. (This would also create your original status where you would hear momentary dial tone for a second or two after turning the dial. That is because even with an open transmitter, you were shorting out the line (light coming on on the Panasonic showing a busy phone) when you turned the dial: Y on dial = L2, R on dial = L1.)

Do you have a working handset (F1 from a 302) with cord? If so, you can connect it directly to the induction coil: white (receiver) to GN, black (transmitter) to L2, red (common) to R.

If you have a volt-ohmmeter, you could also check the 101A with all the wires disconnected from it.
L1-R
C-R
R-GN

[Butch Harlow]

I do have a good meter, will test the 101 this evening. Also, when it was wired correct, I never heard dial tone, but did see the line light up when I turned the dial. The only situation I had dial tone was when I jumped BB to BK, or W to BK. I will have to check my notes again, but there was one situation where I got the transmitter to work very faintly, but that was only briefly and in a incorrect wired situation. Luckily, I do have a couple extra receivers and 101a coils here. If the transmitter is genuinely bad, I have a couple spied out on the Ebay. I am beginning to think it's either the coil or transmitter or both. I would sure like to find out which it is for certain. I will report my findings as soon as I have them. Continued thanks...

[rdelius]

My method to see if the transmitter circuit is bad, short out the wires going to the transmitter.If the transmitter is open, no dial tone but when you  short it , you will hear dial tone.

[Butch Harlow]

Ohm meter readings from the 101A:

L1-R 21.4 ohm

C-R 91.8 ohm

R-GN 72.3 ohm

For comparison purposes, I tested another 101A that I know is working. The figures were less in all cases, but comparably close:

L1-R 21.0 ohm

C-R 87.8 ohm

R-GN 68.8 ohm

The meter has multiple range settings, M ohm, and K ohm, but this only seems to move the decimal point.

Still digging for a F1 receiver to test with.

[Butch Harlow]

My method to see if the transmitter circuit is bad, short out the wires going to the transmitter.If the transmitter is open, no dial tone but when you  short it , you will hear dial tone.

While it was still wired correctly, I jumpered and shorted every imaginable connection, except that one...haha. In my defense it is behind the hookswitch in the case. But that's ok, I am still learning and keeping it fun. Haven't thrown anything off the balcony yet.

[poplar1]

If you disconnect one of the transmitter leads from the terminal block, what is the resistance (ohms) measured across the two transmitter wires?

[Butch Harlow]

I went about wiring the phone back to the original drawing in order to disconnect the one transmitter wire to test it for resistance. Once I had done that and tested it as instructed,  I got a zero number. So, I disconnected the transmitter wires and tested them individually one more time. This time, I wiggled them as I tested. One of the two would lose contact in a certain position, indicating to me a broken conductor along the length of the wire. I rebuilt that one wire using a new piece and.........

EUREKA!!!

The whole thing works. It does everything it's supposed to without any jumpering or shorting whatsoever.

I do still have one small issue of a similar nature with the slate 1mf wire for the ringer. I will replace that one. Then I will put in the 4H dial, clean up my wiring and put this one in the done column. This was my first time working with vintage wire, I have learned that it can be temperamental and brittle. I resoldered certain connections many multiple times. I eventually gave up on red wire for the double connection on the hookswitch because one or the other broke off no less than 5 times.

Thank you Poplar1 for the patient and highly knowledgeable help you have given me. I have learned, and that's what it's all about. I look forward to applying my newfound knowledge to my next problem child project. Pictures of the completed project coming soon.

[HarrySmith]

YEAH!! Congrats!
I love this forum and this is a great example of why. Good work guys!
Thanks.