Does anybody have a wiring diagram for the Kellogg Redbar set with a dial?
Thanks,
Ben
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/wiring-diagrams/kellogg/doc_details/1955-type-1000-telephones-redbar-k1000-tl
Thanks David,
I didn't see that!
Ben
I LOVE wiring Kellogg redbars! You practically don't need a diagram!
KK
Quote from: Kenton K on November 02, 2014, 08:21:34 PM
I LOVE wiring Kellogg redbars! You practically don't need a diagram!
KK
The interior is neat, with the polished plug in. I got my ringer working, but now I can't get my dial to reliably work. If I mess around with the contacts it will sometimes work, but I'm not yet exactly sure on what is going on. So, I think I need figure it out or send it to Steve for repair.
Ben
Picture?
Of what? The inside?
Ben
of the dial?
KK
Here you go.. Pardon the bad lighting, the shop lights are not what they use to be.
Ben
No Master Dial ?
:-) don't worry, be happy
Most seem to have AE dials.
Quote from: unbeldi on November 02, 2014, 09:53:14 PM
No Master Dial ?
:-) don't worry, be happy
Most seem to have AE dials.
When I first opened it up, I was confused on why it had an AE dial. Although, it does say Kellogg somewhere on the dial. I wonder if AE contracted these dials?
Were Master Dials bad?
Ben
Quote from: WesternElectricBen on November 02, 2014, 09:56:25 PM
Quote from: unbeldi on November 02, 2014, 09:53:14 PM
No Master Dial ?
:-) don't worry, be happy
Most seem to have AE dials.
When I first opened it up, I was confused on why it had an AE dial. Although, it does say Kellogg somewhere on the dial. I wonder if AE contracted these dials?
Were Master Dials bad?
Ben
No Master Dials weren't bad, not that I know of anyways.
Yes, Kellogg licensed the design from AE, but started building their own around 1946 or 7.
Have you opened one of the networks yet?
Here is what it looks like, totally over-engineered, if you ask me.
Nice to the eye, but heavy in the wallet.
I love it! No switch hook wires, no capacitor wires, no network wires, multiple capacitor settings! No way to wire capacitor and network wrong. [almost] No wires to fray. I love it!
Too bad the shells are thin. :'( :'( :'(
Quote from: unbeldi on November 02, 2014, 09:59:29 PMQuote from: WesternElectricBen on November 02, 2014, 09:56:25 PMQuote from: unbeldi on November 02, 2014, 09:53:14 PM
No Master Dial ?
:-) don't worry, be happy
Most seem to have AE dials.
When I first opened it up, I was confused on why it had an AE dial. Although, it does say Kellogg somewhere on the dial. I wonder if AE contracted these dials?
Were Master Dials bad?
Ben
No Master Dials weren't bad, not that I know of anyways.
Yes, Kellogg licensed the design from AE, but started building their own around 1946 or 7.
Ah, because it is does not have a Master Dial it means it is most likely a pre-1946 telephone? If I understand correctly.Ben
The phone is a "Masterphone." The dial shown is a Kellogg "15-G." Kellogg started making dials again when they introduced this model phone c. 1947. They had made dials before, but stopped for about 20 years.
ben -
here's a photo of the my redbar's dial for comparison, showing the AE trademark. what does the writing on yours say ? i think i can make out 'kellogg' - but not the rest.
unbeldi -
as my redbar is metal-bodied (& super-heavy as you say) ........would that then indicate it is an early model ? i have read that these phones were produced from '47 to '54.
thanks, david.
Quote from: david@london on November 03, 2014, 07:30:50 AM
ben -
here's a photo of the my redbar's dial for comparison, showing the AE trademark. what does the writing on yours say ? i think i can make out 'kellogg' - but not the rest.
unbeldi -
as my redbar is metal-bodied (& super-heavy as you say) ........would that then indicate it is an early model ? i have read that these phones were produced from '47 to '54.
thanks, david.
I don't know. I have had this discussion with a couple people in the past and it never became clear whether the metal ones are simply early models, or whether the metal production went all along Bakelite production, just in much smaller quantities.
Quote from: poplar1 on November 02, 2014, 11:44:09 PM
The phone is a "Masterphone." The dial shown is a Kellogg "15-G." Kellogg started making dials again when they introduced this model phone c. 1947. They had made dials before, but stopped for about 20 years.
Kellogg used the "Masterphone" trademark for many of its phones, the 700s, 900, 925, 1000-series, 9000s, etc.
Quote from: unbeldi on November 03, 2014, 07:35:16 AM
I have had this discussion with a couple people in the past and it never became clear whether the metal ones are simply early models, or whether the metal production went all along Bakelite production, just in much smaller quantities.
fair enough, thanks. it would be helpful if kellogg had dated their phones' parts like western electric.
i'm wondering which AE dial i have here/what its designation might be..........poplar1 mentions that ben's kellogg dial is a 15G.
would the AE & the kellogg, on a redbar, essentially be identical in all but branding ?
Quote from: david@london on November 03, 2014, 08:00:07 AM
Quote from: unbeldi on November 03, 2014, 07:35:16 AM
I have had this discussion with a couple people in the past and it never became clear whether the metal ones are simply early models, or whether the metal production went all along Bakelite production, just in much smaller quantities.
fair enough, thanks. it would be helpful if kellogg had dated their phones' parts like western electric.
i'm wondering which AE dial i have here/what its designation might be..........poplar1 mentions that ben's kellogg dial is a 15G.
would the AE & the kellogg, on a redbar, essentially be identical in all but branding ?
If you have an AE dial it depends on the year of manufacture, before 1951 it would be a 24A36 dial most likely, AE came out with the No. 51 dial around that time. Interestingly, the dial Poplar mentioned, the No. 15 is essentially a replica of the AE 24A36 and they started making that in 1952, acc. to a paper Roger Conklin wrote for the Singing Wires some years ago. The Kellogg dial before the 15, was the No. 10 series, ca. 1947-1952.
If Ben can show us the bottom of the phone, or replicate exactly the type stampings, we can determine how his phone was configured in the factory.
The letter "D" as prefix before the model number, e.g., D1000, indicated a No. 10 dial was present.
The type of ringer was indicated by suffixes, see my ringer identification page here (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=11938.msg126866#msg126866).
Quote from: unbeldi on November 03, 2014, 07:45:47 AM
Quote from: poplar1 on November 02, 2014, 11:44:09 PM
The phone is a "Masterphone." The dial shown is a Kellogg "15-G." Kellogg started making dials again when they introduced this model phone c. 1947. They had made dials before, but stopped for about 20 years.
Kellogg used the "Masterphone" trademark for many of its phones, the 700s, 900, 925, 1000-series, 9000s, etc.
Yes, "Masterphone," as Automatic Electric's "Monophone," refers to handset-equipped phones.
Here is a previous discussion of dials on K1000s:
Kellogg would, on request, also supply other makes of dials, so occasionally collectors may find Redbars with AE or WE dials. In 1952 Kellogg discontinued the 10-series dial and changed to its new 15 series dial, which was identical to the Automatic Electric 24A36 dial, to satisfy those customers who preferred an AE-type dial.
http://tinyurl.com/39tupu5
stubhttp://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3854.msg50922#msg50922
Just reread Roger's write-up, and comparing dials, with those here and with my dials, and now I wonder whether that dial description is actually correct.
Looking at the two dials presented here, I think David's is a Type 51 AE dial, it has a permanently attached mounting base for the dial contact springs. The prior 24-type dials had removable spring assemblies.
From what I can see on Ben's pictures of his dial it appears to be the same kind, only identified with a KELLOGG logo, is that correct?
So, in that case the No. 15 Kellogg dial is actually a replica of the AE No. 51 dial, and not the 24A36. This makes more time-wise sense, as the No. 51 dial came out in 1951, and Kellogg started making the 15 starting 1952.
The AE 24A36 dial was the 1936 modification of the 1924 dial. That's how AE labels their stuff.
unbeldi -
thank you for the info.
ben -
good luck with getting yr dial working properly.
Hi,
I have posted a picture of the base of my phone, if you were interested in the code.
It does in fact say Kellogg on the dial. Also, does anybody see anything wrong with it?
Ben
The Redbar was a genius idea, "plug and play" a long time before anybody did hear about "plug and play" and that has made lots of phone collectors frustrated.
As usual I do like to play with the possibilities, so here is a suggestion to convert e LB coil version to work on CB.
The coil could be any coil from e.g. a relay. The idea is to have high resistance for the voice signal, but let trough power to the transmitter. a capacitor will then act as a battery. Approx. any capacitor of 10uF or more should work, if you want to be sure it is independent of polarity you may use 2 equal 50 uF (or more) electrolytic capacitors back to back in series.
dsk
And her is how I have mine in good working order. (Here together with a German magneto phone.)
dsk