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GPO Candlestick Problem

Started by Dan, August 08, 2009, 07:04:24 PM

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Dan

#45
I pulled the hook switch completely out of the candlestick tube. A yellow-blue wire has now broken off a blade. My camera died so I can't post a pic. There are three screws under the blades with colored wires attached. A green-yelow isnt on a screw, it's soldered on a blade switch, a yellow blue that atttac hes to position 3 on the block that is now cracked off the blade (this may be the ULTIMATE problem, a crack in this blade), A yellow brown to position 6, .

In summary two yellow browns(position 6 and 5), a broken soldered yellow blue(i think I have been calling this one yellow) and a green yellow soldered

Look @ reply #12 top pic, this is the broken solder joint
"Imagine how weird telephones would look if our ears weren't so close to our mouths." - Steven Wright

Phonesrfun

OK, that helps.  Sorry about the break and the switch.  I am going to digest this, and maybe the crack in the blade may be the problem.  Who knows.  I would like to get a picture of the complete switch assembly, but it is late, your camera died, your wire has broken, and it is probably time for us to call it quits for the night.

What I have learned is that the combination of the 2-section switch and his taking the dial and the switches out of the circuits that they were originally hooked to is so that it can be hooked to the 685 subset.

What was really baffling me is that with the two section hook switch, if one side was shorted out and thus always turned "on", the other side would have turned the other side of the line off and it would not have had the hang-up problem you started out with.  If there is a cracked spring, it may be interfering with other parts and causing the problem.

Anyway, I am going to mull this over, and I really need to ferret through the posts.  One thing that has gotten in the way are all the brown/yellow, yellow brown wires and multiples of them.  Sheesh. 

Anyway, If it is ok with you, I'd like to continue tomorrow or sometime after you have had a chance to take a picture of that other section and maybe resolder the wire.

-Bill
-Bill G

Dan

goodnight, I got an intense root canal patient tomorrow anyway . I'll charge the phone and get some pics up for you 8PM est (approx) Thanks
"Imagine how weird telephones would look if our ears weren't so close to our mouths." - Steven Wright

Phonesrfun

#48
Here is the diagram I have come up with.  Actually, this should work fine, and other than the switch wiring, I do not think there is any other re-wiring to do.  (After all that)

This absolutely should work the way it is drawn.

The one thing that the hookswitch does not provide is muting of the receiver during hookswitch operation.  The hookswitch you have has been really modified and therefore I absolutely do not recommend trying to put yet another section in for receiver muting.  What this means is that when you lift or press down on the hook to hang it up or take it off hook, you will always hear a pop in the receiver.  Fortunately, you will almost always be putting the receiver on the hook or taking it off the hook during this moment, so the receiver will be well away from your ear.  However, if you should click the hookswitch while the receiver is up to your ear, you will hear the pop.

Here is the diagram.

Next step is repairing the hookswitch and getting it back together.

-Bill
-Bill G

Dan

 :o

Beautiful schematic! I have never soldered on a leaf switch before but that will come later. Talk to you tonite. Thanks again
"Imagine how weird telephones would look if our ears weren't so close to our mouths." - Steven Wright

bingster

I'm impressed, Bill.  Great job. :)
= DARRIN =



Phonesrfun

Oh, but we still have to get it working....

-Bill
-Bill G

Dan

#52
Here is a couple of hook switch pics (overheard and side views) to help you confirm your work. Whats next? Repairing the broken solder area? I  have a gun with some lead solder. Thanks again. One more thing, despite the sloppy wiring routing, does it look like the guy knew what he was doing? I don't know him, it is only hearsay from the craigslist guy (whom I also don't know)




"Imagine how weird telephones would look if our ears weren't so close to our mouths." - Steven Wright

Phonesrfun

I am just now leaving from work to home, and I need to make a stop at the store for a few minutes en route.

Those pictures are going to be a great help.  Now, just like the dentist asking for an X-ray, can you get a shot that shows the switch contacts both a frontal view and a side view (from both sides)?  That would also help.  

My ex-wife was a dental assistant for many years, and she once told me the lingo about mesial, distal, lateral, etc, but I can only come up with frontal view and side view at the moment.  These shots will show me what you mean about the split contact.

Oh, and to answer your question about soldering...

Soldering is not hard, but you need to make sure the heat does not destroy things around it.  That probably won't be a problem here, and you probably know about heat conduction.  Also the way to do a good solder job is to first bare the wire, second, wrap it around the the thing you are soldering to, and then hold the solder gun tip right on the thing being soldered and wait for the thing + the wire to come up to heat.  Then touch the solder to the joint, but not directly to the solder gun tip.  The goal is to let the solder sort of flow in and around the parts, but touch the solder mainly to the joint itself.

If possible, you may want to take the soldering gun tip and swipe it over the joint ahead of time to remove the broken off piece of wire still stuck to the joint.  Otherwise you will wind up solering the new wire right over the broken off piece.

Remember that less is more when it comes to soldering.  You don't want a big blob of solder, and you don't want a cold solder joint.  A cold solder joint is one that you have just heated up the solder and not the joint itself, and you just wind up with a solder crust so-to-speak around the actual joint.

Lastly, one thing that has gotten my attention from the start is the way that terminal for this joint sticks way out to the side.  It may be rubbing against the inside of the candlestick shaft.  If there is a way to bend it inward some to get some of that overhang out, that would be great.  By bending, I mean front to back, and not in an up or down direction from the shaft.  We can talk about this more, because it is hard for me to describe.


So, I will be back in the saddle at home in an hour or less.


-Bill
-Bill G

Dan

#54
Here's a side view. The two wires go up to the mouthpiece. from top (the shortest leaf) to the bottom there are four leaves. In the unhung position is the picture . Between layers two and three is the rust colored insulator. Hanging up the receiver only opens the small leaf from the stack, the insulator keeps layers two and three open, while the space between 3 and 4 is closed in hang up or unhung position

"Imagine how weird telephones would look if our ears weren't so close to our mouths." - Steven Wright

Phonesrfun

I am back...

In the un-hung position, it appears that the two leaves at the top of the stack, which is one set of the two switches seems to be closed, which is what you want.  I cannot see from the photo what the bottom of the stack switches are doing, but they too should be closed (contacting each other).  When the hook is in the hung-up position, both sets should open up.  Can you confirm?

-Bill
-Bill G

Phonesrfun

I just read your post more carefully.  What you are saying is that the second set (3 and 4 leaves) do not open when the receiver is on-hook.  That is a problem.

-Bill G

Phonesrfun

BTW, do you have an ohm meter?

-Bill G

Phonesrfun

My guess on the whole problem:

1.  The bottom switch is not opening on hang-up.
2.  The top switch has the one terminal that was rubbing inside against the shaft of the stick.

This phone has two sets of switches, and even if one failed to open, the other one would still cut the phone out and hang it up.  However, with the one contact rubbing against the inside of the shaft, if somewhere else in the phone there is contact with the body from another point, it would possibly short out that switch too, causing the phone never to be hung up.  A likely candidate for another wire to be touching the phone would be inside the transmitter.  That would definitely cause it.  With an ohm meter I think we could check this and other things to see.

I think I asked you a long time ago if you had one and I think it may have been you that said you had an old one that your dad had years ago.  If that's the case, if you can break it out and get a new battery for it, that would help.  If not, we can just proceed to make sure that terminal (once re-soldered) does not touch the side of the phone.

BTW that would also explain why jiggling the switch-hook would have at one time made it work.  It was probably not absolutely rubbing, but since has shorted out to the shaft all the time.

-Bill
-Bill G

Dan

#59
The hang up switch pressed against leaf four. I slid paper between layer three and four and even floss. I can't even get floss between layers 3 and four of the leaves also . OHM meter yes, I just don't know how to use it.
"Imagine how weird telephones would look if our ears weren't so close to our mouths." - Steven Wright