D1 202 with 634BA-3 Subset Troubleshooting

[GLadstone]

Hi Everyone,

We recently purchased a D1 202 with 634BA-3 subset from a forum member.

The phone was working when he last used it, but I have not yet been able to make or receive calls with it.

He has graciously been helping me troubleshoot via PM, but the phone is not yet operating as expected...

Here's a quick summary of the steps taken to date.

Any and all help to return this phone to service is greatly appreciated!

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Symptoms:

When plugged in (we still have POTS landline service), it gets dial tone for a short while, then the automatic message that "we're sorry, your call did not go through, please hang up and try again" message starts and keeps playing as the phone does not "hang up."

And, when attempting to dial numbers (before the automatic message starts), dial tone is heard between numbers (until the automatic message starts).

Similarly, I've been getting a busy signal when this phone is plugged in and I try calling with my cell phone.

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Thinking there may be a misconnection with the phone's and/or subset's wiring, I first downloaded Bingster's wiring diagrams from this topic:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=784.0

And, went through the wiring.

For you ease of reference here are the links to the specific images I've been using:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=784.0;attach=24453

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=784.0;attach=24459

As a double-check, here's what I am seeing on this phone (if you notice something out of place, please let me know!):

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Wiring:

D1-202:



Mounting Cord (from Subset):
green to hook switch GN
red to 4H dial R
black to 4H dial BK
yellow to hook switch Y

Handset Cord to 4H dial:
brown / red cloth to R
black cloth to BK
brown / white cloth to W

4H Dial:
W --> brown / white cloth handset cord
Y --> black cloth jumper cable to hook switch BK
BK --> black mounting cord (from subset)
BK --> black cloth handset cord
BB --> black cloth jumper cable to hook switch W
R --> red mounting cord (from subset)
R --> brown / red cloth handset cord

Hook Switch:
GN --> green mounting cord (from subset)
W --> black cloth jumper cable to 4H dial BB
BK --> black cloth jumper cable to 4H dial Y
Y --> yellow mounting cord (from subset)

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634BA-3 Subset:



Line Cord (to wall):
red to L1 (101A coil)
green to L2Y (101A coil)

Mounting Cord (to phone):
red to R (101A coil)
yellow to L2Y (101A coil)
green to GN (101A coil)
black to BK (wood block)

Ringer:
black to K (wood block)
red to L1 (101A coil)

449B 0.5MF (under wood block):
gray to K (wood block)
yellow to L2Y (101A coil)

447A 2MF (under metal bar):
black to BK (wood block)
red to C (101A coil)

101A coil:
GN --> green mounting cord
R --> red mounting cord
L2Y --> yellow mounting cord
L2Y --> green line cord
L2Y --> yellow 449B 0.5 MF
L1 --> red line cord
L1 --> red ringer
C --> red 447A 2 MF

Wood block:
BK --> black mounting cord
BK --> black 447A 2 MF
K --> gray 449B 0.5 MF
K --> black ringer

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After checking the wiring, I contacted the forum member via PM to see if he had any ideas.

Based on these symptoms, he suspected that the old paper capacitor/condenser is bad and generously sent a modern foil capacitor.



Black condenser = 1 MF
Maroon condenser = 2 MF

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After going to the hardware store to purchase some jumper cables to temporarily extend / make the 1 MF & 2 MF connections, I was still getting the same symptoms...



Connections:

Black 1MF condenser
one side to K
one side to L2Y

Maroon 2MF condenser
one side to BK
one side to C

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The next suggestion was to disconnect the ringer and see if it worked, but only if the wiring was correct.

I *think* the wiring is correct, but am not 100% positive it is correct, so I have not yet tried to connect the phone while the ringer is disconnected.

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He also recommended checking the bullet transmitter.

I've tried taking the E1 handset from the D1 202 apart, but I can only get it partially open.

Here's what can currently be seen:


E1 Handset overview


transmitter end with handset cord wiring


transmitter end (underside of spit cup)


receiver end with magnetic disc removed

Looking at this E1 topic (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=27.0), I see that a Sloan strap wrench is highly recommended and has been added to the tools "wish list."

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It may or may not be related, but I've noticed there is a clear glob of sticky "goo" on the 4H dial.



Any ideas what it is?

Should it be left as is or cleaned off?

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Thanks again for your time and assistance!

Take care,
GLadstone

[tubaman]

Clearly it is placing a permanent loop across the line - hence dial tone for a bit and then times out.
I would try disconnecting the phone from the subset and seeing if it still loops the line with just the subset connected (it shouldn't).
With the subset on its own the circuit should be no more than tip-->capacitor-->bell-->ring.
You should be able to make it ring like this by calling the line.
This will hopefully rule out the subset.

Also, looking at the phone, are the hookswitch contacts correctly placed around the insulating pieces, as if they have got out of place they might be making a permanent connection.

[poplar1]

Wiring appears to be correct. However, it would still be ok to disconnect the ringer regardless of the state of the talk path.

Can't see in the photos whether the Y-BK hookswitch  contacts are actually separating when the handset is in the cradle. Even if they are opening, you might still want to measure the resistance (ohms) between Y and BK of hookswitch with all the wires disconnected from said Y and BK, and the line cord disconnected from the wall.

Also, as with any 302-type circuit, removing the transmitter (or the black handset wire from BK on dial) should cause loss of dial tone, though you should still hear the "hum" ( "monitor") of the idle Central Office equipment unless the hookswitch plunger is pushed down.

[GLadstone]

Hi tubaman and poplar1,

Thanks for taking the time to help troubleshoot!

Here's the latest updates based on your suggestions:

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tubaman--

Clearly it is placing a permanent loop across the line - hence dial tone for a bit and then times out.
I would try disconnecting the phone from the subset and seeing if it still loops the line with just the subset connected (it shouldn't).
With the subset on its own the circuit should be no more than tip-->capacitor-->bell-->ring.
You should be able to make it ring like this by calling the line.
This will hopefully rule out the subset.

It's currently too late to ring the subset-- I'll try this tomorrow. 

Also, looking at the phone, are the hookswitch contacts correctly placed around the insulating pieces, as if they have got out of place they might be making a permanent connection.

Hmm, I'm not sure...

Here are a couple more photos:


D1 202 base overview


Closer view of hook switch connections

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poplar 1---

Wiring appears to be correct. However, it would still be ok to disconnect the ringer regardless of the state of the talk path.

I'm still getting the same symptoms when plugging in the phone and subset with the red and black ringer wires disconnected...

Can't see in the photos whether the Y-BK hookswitch  contacts are actually separating when the handset is in the cradle. Even if they are opening, you might still want to measure the resistance (ohms) between Y and BK of hookswitch with all the wires disconnected from said Y and BK, and the line cord disconnected from the wall.

Hook switch with handset ON cradle


Hook switch with handset OFF cradle


Testing resistance of Y and BK

Also, as with any 302-type circuit, removing the transmitter (or the black handset wire from BK on dial) should cause loss of dial tone, though you should still hear the "hum" ( "monitor") of the idle Central Office equipment unless the hookswitch plunger is pushed down.

With the black handset wire removed from the dial BK, I am able to hear the central office "hum" with the handset off hook.

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Thanks again for all your help!

Take care,
GLadstone

[tubaman]

The hookswitch contacts look fine from the photos - it appears to be working as it should.

[GLadstone]

Hi tubaman,

The hookswitch contacts look fine from the photos - it appears to be working as it should.

Thanks for taking the time to look at the photos!

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Following up from this suggestion:

Clearly it is placing a permanent loop across the line - hence dial tone for a bit and then times out.
I would try disconnecting the phone from the subset and seeing if it still loops the line with just the subset connected (it shouldn't).
With the subset on its own the circuit should be no more than tip-->capacitor-->bell-->ring.
You should be able to make it ring like this by calling the line.
This will hopefully rule out the subset.

The subset does ring with the phone disconnected.

I've uploaded a quick video clip of the subset ringing with the phone disconnected to YouTube:
https://youtu.be/mRum3E1ZAC4

Plugging the phone back into the subset results in the same symptoms (busy signal, etc.)...

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I sincerely appreciate all the troubleshooting help and ideas!

Take care,
GLadstone

[poplar1]

Resistance Y-BK is 0.3 ohms off-hook? What about on-hook on 20K range?

[poplar1]

Can't see in the photos whether the Y-BK hookswitch  contacts are actually separating when the handset is in the cradle. Even if they are opening, you might still want to measure the resistance (ohms) between Y and BK of hookswitch with all the wires disconnected from said Y and BK, and the line cord disconnected from the wall.

Should have added:
Test the resistance with the plunger pushed down.

Is the 0.3 ohm reading with the plunger up (contacts closed) or down (contacts open)?

[GLadstone]

Hi poplar1,

Should have added:
Test the resistance with the plunger pushed down.

Is the 0.3 ohm reading with the plunger up (contacts closed) or down (contacts open)?

Ah, thanks for the clarification!

The 0.3 ohm reading pictured in reply #3 above was taken with the handset off the cradle (i.e., plunger up / contacts closed).

With the plunger pushed down / contacts open, I am not able to get a reading-- The meter is just showing a "1" no matter which range is set.

Take care,
GLadstone

[poplar1]

With the plunger pushed down see if there is also low resistance (such as 0 or near) -- with all the wires off the hookswitch terminals -- between Y and GN, Y and W, Y and the metal housing, BK and GN, BK and W, and BK and the housing....There must be a short somewhere if you can't hang up.

[rdelius]

I have seen this happen. Try taking out one at a time the switch mounting screws and look for carbon deposits from lightning or foreign voltages .Remember telephones were turned in or retired because of failures many times instead of out of date

[GLadstone]

Hi poplar1 and rdelius,

Thanks for the suggestions!

Here are some updates:

poplar1--

With the plunger pushed down see if there is also low resistance (such as 0 or near) -- with all the wires off the hookswitch terminals -- between Y and GN, Y and W, Y and the metal housing, BK and GN, BK and W, and BK and the housing....There must be a short somewhere if you can't hang up.

With all the wires removed from the hook switch and the plunger down, my meter is reading "1" (for all range settings) for all of the following:

Y - GN
Y - W
Y - Metal Housing

BK - GN
BK - W
BK - Metal Housing

Since I had all wires removed and the meter nearby, I also tested continuity:

With the plunger up, there is continuity between:
Y - BK
W - GN

With the plunger down, there is no continuity.

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rdelius--

I have seen this happen. Try taking out one at a time the switch mounting screws and look for carbon deposits from lightning or foreign voltages .Remember telephones were turned in or retired because of failures many times instead of out of date

Here are some photos:


Side view of hook switch (overview)


Side view of hook switch (close-up)


Top view of hook switch (overview with both screws connected)


Top view of hook switch (overview with "screw 1" removed)


Close-up view of "screw 1"


Top view of hook switch (overview with "screw 2" removed)


Close-up view of "screw 2"

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Thank you all again for your help troubleshooting!

Take care,
GLadstone

[tubaman]

I think my next step would be to disconnect all wiring from the phone and start putting it back, as per the diagram, one wire at a time.
I would then test on the line as I added each wire until the fault appeared.
This should then show where it is.
I have had a similar issue with a phone where a previous owner thought it a good idea to spray everything with a WD40 type oil, and this had then got into the insulation of the hookswitch block and was causing a partial short.
I had to fully dismantle the block and thoroughly clean everything to fix, but it did take some finding!

[GLadstone]

Hi tubaman,

I think my next step would be to disconnect all wiring from the phone and start putting it back, as per the diagram, one wire at a time.
I would then test on the line as I added each wire until the fault appeared.
This should then show where it is.
I have had a similar issue with a phone where a previous owner thought it a good idea to spray everything with a WD40 type oil, and this had then got into the insulation of the hookswitch block and was causing a partial short.
I had to fully dismantle the block and thoroughly clean everything to fix, but it did take some finding!

Last night, before putting the phone back together, I was really looking at the phone and wondering if I should remove all the wires and start again...

I'll report back with updates.

Take care,
GLadstone

[GLadstone]

Hi tubaman,

I think my next step would be to disconnect all wiring from the phone and start putting it back, as per the diagram, one wire at a time.
I would then test on the line as I added each wire until the fault appeared.
This should then show where it is.
I have had a similar issue with a phone where a previous owner thought it a good idea to spray everything with a WD40 type oil, and this had then got into the insulation of the hookswitch block and was causing a partial short.
I had to fully dismantle the block and thoroughly clean everything to fix, but it did take some finding!

Thanks for this suggestion!

I think we may have found the short:

The subset rings with the red mounting cord wire disconnected from inside the D1 202 base.


Red mounting cord wire (highlighted from an earlier photo)

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I'm currently searching for BSPs to see what this means...

Suggestions and tips are always welcome!

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In case it helps anyone else, here is what I did:

Since most of this conversation has focused on the hook switch, I started by disconnecting the wires one by one from the hook switch:

First Y, then BK, followed by W, and finally GN.

And, I called the phone each time a wire was disconnected.

The subset did not ring when any of these wires were disconnected from the D1 202 base.

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I then reconnected all the hook switch wires and figured I would continue disconnecting the mounting cord wires, starting with R.

The subset rings with R disconnected from the D1 202 base.

And, gives a busy signal when reconnected back to the D1 202 base.

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Thanks again for your time and assistance!

Take care,
GLadstone