My Bk Precision 1050

[bobv]

My  Bk Precision 1050

[Key2871]

Now you're cookin with gas.. that's nice I wish I could have afforded one.

[bobv]

Now you're cookin with gas.. that's nice I wish I could have afforded one.

Hi Key2871
working great. I fix one dial with 1050. now I have 1045 & 1050. totally 8 dials I fix my self 

[FABphones]

I like the way you have the smaller unit sitting on top of the 1050.
I wish they came up for sale on this side of the water.

[Key2871]

Back when I wanted a product tester, those 1050's were at least a grand, even the smaller 1045 was expensive, I got what I thought was a good deal on my C, the last in the Series, but compared to what they go for today, not so much.
But mine looked like new. I've had older B's that didn't workout figured out how to fix them.

[robert_m]

in my experience the 1050 is a decent reliable unit, the 1045 really is useless in my view as its not properlly checking the tiiming of 10pps or 20pps, but would help with basic dial repair.

[Ktownphoneco]

The BK Precision 1050 doesn't help calibrate the pulsing speed or the break period either.   I checked the manual which is available on the TCI Library web site.   It reads any digit between 8 pps and 20 pps, and it doesn't read the break period.      Search TCI Library, select Search, select Google search and type in BK1050., hit search, and go to top right of resulting page and click on "view".

Jeff Lamb

[Key2871]

in my experience the 1050 is a decent reliable unit, the 1045 really is useless in my view as its not properlly checking the tiiming of 10pps or 20pps, but would help with basic dial repair.

Yea well for working on phones just to trouble shoot connection issues and repairing ringers the 1045 is quite useful.
Like Jeff said the 1050 doesn't calibrate dials, it just helps you find problems.
I wouldn't say the 1045 is useless, it is very useful for what I use it for. I've had phones I couldn't find the problem, and with the unit I have it worked very well finding the problem.
Other wise I was trying up my land-line using the power and dial tone to figure out a connection issue.

[robert_m]

Agree, helping trouble shoot problem, yes, calibratating a dial both are useless, was my point.

[TelePlay]

     Regular Member Post

Testing dials for proper operation has been well documented on the forum. The final final test of what works best, what definitively shows the operation of a dial with respect to dial speed and break/make ratios was posted in August of 2018. In this test, this comparison, the pulse data from a dial was sent by way of a .wav sound file to me for analysis using the Audacity technique. The same dial, the same pulse data was tested directly by ktownphoneco on a Sage 930 analyzer, a piece of test equipment (with the right options installed) will show accurate dial speed and break/make ratios and with that data, it can be decided if a dial must be restored or is in spec as is.

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=17011.msg214159#msg214159

This reply (the above link) showed that Audacity and the Sage produced the same dial test results using 6 sets of data, the number "0" was dialed 6 times. The only difference is that Audacity provides very accurate and reproducible data to 2 points past the decimal place and the Sage 930 round those 2 points off the a whole number. This is the Audacity wave file for one full operation of the dial under test.




There is no better way to "look" at what a dial is doing while pulsing that provided by using Audacity. Now, the price one pays for the Audacity precision is the time it takes to input the data from a sound file into a spread sheet, and in this case 6 times. A Sage 930 will provide the same results in a few seconds rather than 10 to 15 minutes but the Audacity shows so much more information including one digit being off due to a clump of crud in one of the gear teeth - a reproducible blimp in speed immediately eliminated by finding the dirt in the tooth and removing it with a toothpick. The above wav file is quite uniform showing there is not single chunk of crud in one gear tooth, something that can only be seen in a pulse wave form. And, then, once a dial is reconditioned, comparison of the before and after Audacity sound files shows exactly how well the reconditioning improved the dial and if the dial needs more work.



In this case, only the "before" Audacity wave file was sent for a test comparison against the Sage 930. The "after" reconditioning information was not sent.

There is no way that a BK 1050 can produce anything close to the data generated with a Sage 930 or Audacity to determine the quality of a specific dial. With Audacity, the PPS times for each digit can be graphed to show the dial slowing down as it moves from "0" to "1" due to the fact that the mainspring is winding down. The governor does a great job keeping the PPS constant but when graphing the digits, the PPS always slows down at the dial unwinds regardless of the condition of the dial (a dial doing 8 PPS shows the same type of loss of energy in the spring as a dial doing 11 PPS).

In this case, with this dial over 6 full dialings, the graph of the spring related slow down is consistent with each full operation of the dial.



Without the specific PPS and break/make information, information not available using a BK 1050, how can one determine if a dial is working in spec or needs to be reconditioned? And, more importantly, what was the affect of the reconditioning, how was the dial performing after it was reconditioned? That is also not available using a BK 1050.

I've tested many dials using Audacity and have always been able to say that a dial I "fixed" was really fixed, it met spec to 2 places after the decimal point be it speed (PPS right about 10) or the Break/Make ratio (right about 60%/40%). This can not be said of any dial tested with a BK 1050 which from what others have said seems to do nothing more than provide a pass/fail with the pass within a wide range of speeds and break/make ratios.

Once again I find myself reinventing the wheel because someone did not research the forum and find this information. The first link above will take you to a topic of 4 pages in length where this is discussed at length ending with the comparison of a Sage 930 and Audacity. Ignorance (failure to do the work of fully learning about dial reconditioning) is bliss, and easy to do when no heavy lifting is applied preparing for and undertaking a forum quality reconditioning of a dial, but what is really important is the final operating specs of the dial being reconditioned and how it was reconditioned so that it remains in spec for the next few decades.

There are no short cuts in dial reconditioning. It's either done completely and correctly or it's not much better than as removed from a phone housing. And, using a BK-1050 pass/fail test instrument to determine dial specs or being in spec is just folly.

It's quite a disappoint to realize that all of the good work posted by so many members over 10 years is lost to the moment a video with no dialog showing a dial being spun and "testing" or "repairing" a dial is posted and declared "good" by those who do not remember the time consuming work of others to help members best test and restore their phones.

[robert_m]

Thanks teleplay - I could not agree more and assume you understood that was my point.  You went into much more detail, but net is same both peices of equiptment a junk if your tring to properlly calibrate a dail to 10 or 20 pps, period!

[TelePlay]

     Regular Member Post

Thanks teleplay - I could not agree more and assume you understood that was my point.  You went into much more detail, but net is same both peices of equiptment a junk if your tring to properlly calibrate a dail to 10 or 20 pps, period!

No problem.

Yes, I went into more detail but keep in mind that you were speaking to the BK instrumentation and I was speaking to the point that a lot of stuff, including dial cleaning, repair and adjustment has been asked and answered in deep, quality detail on the forum by more than a few members. twocvbloke and dsk introduced Audacity to the forum for dial speed adjustment in 2012 and having a background in using Audacity to create professional quality theatrical sound affects for live stage plays, I started to use Audacity as well for dial analysis. The 3 of us got the technique down over time to what I posted above. Along the way, I created the Excel spreadsheet (which is available to anyone who wants it just for the asking in a PM) which is probably the 7th or 8th generation of it by me with each adding ways to get more dial performance information out of a single wave form. The last spreadsheet extracts everything anyone would want to know about a dials performance. And it's been on the forum for over 6 months readily available for anyone interested in learning how to analyze a dial's performance.

I realize there is a lot of stuff on the forum that is invaluable but difficult to find for newer members. The best thing for a new member to do is simply ask the forum in topic how to analyze a dial for speed and break/make ratios. Those of us who are interested in or have actually use a Sage 930 or Audacity can easily find the existing topic link and provide it in a reply with a short description of how it is done. To create a new topic with the heading of "dial repair" or "My BK" with absolutely no content to either explain in detail the purpose of the post or to provide information that would help for anyone interested in working on dials is a waste of time.

A lot of members have invested a lot of time, money and creativity in posting "how to" topics to both document ground breaking ways they have discovered to do a lot of things to a lot of different types of telephonic equipment and systems. I don't think there is anything that would be considered new but I know there is always room for improvement in restoration techniques, and some members do the heavy lifting to post advances in restoration techniques for posterity and for anyone who is interested in the area to read about and try the advancement, if they wanted or have a need to do so.

In this case, I provided just a small part of dial restoration or reconditioning by discussing once again how to "read" a dial before and after reconditioning. Other steps such as disassembly and cleaning are also on the forum available by searching or simply asking. If anything, this topic has educated many to the fact that a BK 1050 is useless for accurate analysis of a dial and using one to "fix" a dial, to show that it was "fixed" is as I said, folly. The ways to obtain dial performance information has been asked and answered in detail many times over and nothing found in the video attached to the first post comes anywhere close, not even in the same ballpark, city, state or country to helping someone analyze and adjust or "fix" a dial.

The only stupid question is one not asked. To blunder forward with a video like that and then say dials are being "fixed" using the BK 1050 is misleading to those new to the hobby and that does a great disservice to the members wanting to learn and the forum itself which is recognized world wide as an education platform for the telephone hobbyist. It is so easy for a new member, or a long term member, to simply ask a question on how to do something or where to find it and I know there are at least one to two dozen members who would quickly reply with good answers and links to help the member get started on resolving their issue. Posting a meaningless topic does not help anyone, in this case is misleading and degrades the quality of the forum. So much time and energy has been invested in so many members to create and keep this forum as the Number 1 go to source for telephone help and just one post like this goes against all the forum stands for, the spirit of the forum.

I don't know much about a lot of things. We all have our specialty areas. I'm good at analyzing dials, reconditioning them, well, for me I'm still learning from others. I can hold my own at chemically sanding plastic housings or polishing pot metal to a mirror finish. Beyond that, I have limited to no personal knowledge. I could run off a list of member handles and their areas of interest, their specialties, right now off the top of my head. Some over lap and some are unique to their area, the only member on the forum with in depth knowledge of that area. I think I can speak for all of them when I say posting a topic with nothing more than a link to a website and less than 10 words is an insult to the integrity of the forum and its serious hobbyists. I'm seeing topics like this as doing nothing more than getting the click count up at the "other" web site to support that site's requested advertising and user fees. If I'm wrong, reply saying so or send me PM. It just might be that those of us who have invested a lot to learn the hobby well, or at least parts of it, find this topic counter to all this forum has tried to be, to become over the past 10 years.

I guess it just might be that the members who invested heavily to help contribute, to help build this forum into the educational database and platform it has become find this topic's first post and second reply as pretentious and an affront to that investment.

[bobv]

I enjoying the BK 1045-1050. I am testing dials once they started working it is great. so far it has been fantastic. I am not going to  use  for NASA  technology. 

[bobv]

I am going to play the dials with my Sage 930 

[Ktownphoneco]

Can you post a picture of your Sage 930 so we can see how you connect it ?

Jeff