WECo F-numbers

[JimHyak]

I have a number of WE prototype phones, transparent phones, and perhaps sample phones (early versions with no guts) that have an F-number instead of the regular model number. Many of the prototype phones on Paul-Fs site are also F-numbered. The numbers seem to be sequential according to the date. I think some of my trimlines that should have an F-number have been "manipulated". It would seem pointless to have a numbering system without a master list, or some sort of code. Was/is there such a list? I've started to compile one, but before going to all that work, thought I would ask.

[jsowers]

Jim, that list could be lost to history by now. Compiling one is a great idea. So many display phones were discarded that few remain.

Below is one not often seen, from a gutless turquoise 2500 display model. I have a couple 701 Princess display models too, posted below. They're the same F-number, which also points to there being a master list. How else would they know what to stamp it?

[unbeldi]

How do you know those were "display" sets, and not field trial sets for some feature?

Western Electric had a few numbering spaces that we know of for special sets.

The D-numbers (drawing numbers) and the F-numbers are the most prominent perhaps.

D-numbers were apparently used for several purposes, all limited production parts, which may include parts under development.
Many parts sold under contract, for example, with the Signal Corps, were marked with D-numbers.
Many parts in field trials also had D-numbers, notably the 302 field trial sets.

F-numbers also seem to be field trial sets very often. For example, the 1959 field trial sets for princesses were marked F-51910A/B/C/D where the letter indicated the color.
Early versions of parts were F-numbered, e.g. the early 6T and 6U dials were marked F-56661 and 2.

I am not sure F-numbers existed before the 1950s, though.  Did they replace the D numbers?

But there are others too.  GA-numbers, which may have been contracts with the DOD in the 1950s (e.g., GA-51859).

KS-numbers for third-party products purchased based on Bell specifications.

I started a list of D-numbers,  but haven't collected more, because there are so many of them, when you really start looking.

Of course WECo had a "master list", there must have been an office to issue the numbers when needed. But like most internal documentation, it is not publicly available.  Perhaps the AT&T Archives has that.

If you have numbers to share, make a list and post it here. Perhaps others will add more. Everything starts with one person taking the first step.

[poplar1]

The display models do not contain networks, ringers, etc.
Field trial sets are working models.

[jsowers]

How do you know those were "display" sets, and not field trial sets for some feature?

See for yourself. No guts plus, in the case of the Princesses, number cards that were for display purposes=display models. In the case of the aqua blue 701, it may have had a light lit inside it too, since there's a browned spot on the side.

[unbeldi]

I see.

I would give them an F too.

[JimHyak]

I thought I would compile a list of numbers from my own phones and the ones gleaned from Paul-F's site. So far I have columns for f-number, date, and brief description. Writing this it occurs to me I should include the source as well. Any other suggestions? I'll post what I have in a few days, feel free to send along any numbers / pictures of your own.

[paul-f]

I thought I would compile a list of numbers from my own phones and the ones gleaned from Paul-F's site. So far I have columns for f-number, date, and brief description. Writing this it occurs to me I should include the source as well. Any other suggestions?

Great project, Jim.

Something like this has been on my "to do someday" list for a loooong time.  I believe several others may have started gathering data for lists as well.

I recommend adding a comments column to highlight things like extra markings on the sets that might get lost in a description column. "NON-WORKING" is one stamp that appears to be on some sets that were made as display sets, but is also on some that were apparently returned field trial sets that were gutted and used as display sets.

Also, columns for the field trial sets can list the cities and number of sets used in each (where known).  I have been gradually adding that info to my site, as we find it.

Your logic that there must have been a list within the Bell System is sound.  Several of us have asked the various archives and phone museums for info and have come up dry. 

I visited the AT&T and Lucent Archives about 10 years ago and got a lot of the info that is now on my site. I was told that if there was a list in the 1950s to 70s, it apparently wasn't saved -- or possibly is in a folder somewhere, but is not cataloged. In the early 2000s, the AT&T Archives had a large staff that was organizing and documenting the collection. After several rounds of corporate downsizing, they were left with one archivist by the time AT&T was bought by SBC. Needless to say, there aren't enough staff hours available to expect them to mount a search effort. I try to keep the subject open with them by asking about specific sets and reminding them that we're looking for any documents that reference F-, D-, Y- or other unusual codes. Hopefully, if they run across anything, we'll hear about it.

[JimHyak]

All great ideas, Paul. Some of your suggestions didn't occur to me since I have no access to that data, other than your site. My plan is just to do it as an excel spreadsheet, so adding columns would not be an issue. I was hoping you had an interest and would consider adding the list to your site at some point in the future. Let me know if a different approach would make that easier. I also responded to your PM.
Jim

[paul-f]

We are on the same wavelength, Jim.

I'm glad to work with you.

I found a spreadsheet that was started several years ago that we can use as a starting point and have experimented with loading it on the site. There are some minor formatting issues, but it should work well.

Several pages on the site have been group efforts, with a team collecting and formatting most of the data. The AE Colors chart is a case in point.

[andre_janew]

I've heard that the display models were actually lighter than the actual phone.  Now I know why!

[paul-f]

While Jim and I are working on the starter list of field trial and display sets from info on the CRPF, paul-f.com and our collections, we have noted that there are also F-numbers used for other purposes to be found in BSP and catalog references.

To build a comprehensive list, we need to find them all!

It would be helpful if others check the TCI Library and your document collections for additional references and post them in this topic.

For example, a search in the TCI Library produced the following:
   F-50682    Ground Observer's Telephone    C38.805, 510-820-100, CD/SD-69226-01

BSP and catalog index documents in the Library may be a good source of additional references. For example, BSP 460-000-006, Issue 6, February 1979 provides the following:



APPARATUS MOUNTINGS Noncoin Telephone Set
Identification Installation Maintenance Testing F-60762  506-500-100

CDA (ISU F-58003 AND ASSOCIATED F-58004 KTU AND F-5801S CONSOLE)
Identification Installation Maintenance Operation Voice Connecting Arrangement
IB463-350-100

CDB (USING F-58005 IU)
Connections Identification Installation Maintenance Method of Operation
Voice Connecting Arrangement   463-331-100

DIALS Station Connections
F-56309 Type Station  501-164-130
F-56310 Type Station  501-164-131
F-58553 Station  501-164-117
F-58556 Station  501-164-132

INTERCONNECTING UNIT
Interconnecting Control Unit - Connections Identification Installation Maintenance
F-58010  463-300-110

Interconnecting Key Telephone Unit - Connections Identification Installation Maintenance
F-58006  463-300-140
F-58007  463-300-150

Voice Coupler Connections - Identification Installation Maintenance
F-58008  463-300-130

NONCOIN TELEPHONE SET
Connection Identification Installation Maintenance Testing
F-60761  506-500-100

758C (Arranged for Wide Band Secure Voice Operation)
Method of Operation - F-58011 Telephone Console  551-511-301

TELEPHONE SET
Howard Johnson Motor Hotel Chain - Identification
F-56105  512-120-102

Imperial House 400 Motor Hotel Chain - Identification
F-56105  512-120-103

D-180574 Coin Decorator DESIGN LINE Telephone  SA503-200-113

F-50682 Ground Observer  510-820-100

F-56105 Using KS-16844 RAPIDIAL  512-120-101

F-56503 Using KS-19594 Dialer  512-126-100

F-58554 Card Dialer  502-690-100

F-58555 Card Dialer  502-690-101

TOUCH-A-MATIC Automatic Dialer Connections
F-59796 TOUCH-A-MATIC Automatic Dialer  SA503-701-100
F-59797 TOUCH-A-MATIC Automatic Dialer  SA503-701-100
F-59798 TOUCH-A-MATIC Automatic Dialer  SA503-701-100
F-59799 TOUCH-A-MATIC Automatic Dialer  SA503-701-100
F-60208 TOUCH-A-MATIC Automatic Dialer  SA503-701-100
F-60209 TOUCH-A-MATIC Automatic Dialer  SA503-701-100
F-60210 TOUCH-A-MATIC Automatic Dialer  SA503-701-100
F-60211 TOUCH-A-MATIC Automatic Dialer  SA503-701-100

Customer Provided Housing
F-56659  501-410-101  SA501-410-400
F-56660  501-410-101  SA501-410-400



Adding descriptions for the F-numbers to this list is also helpful.

[poplar1]

F-53115
Clear 500DR 6-58
With 7C dial

[JimHyak]

If you have a F-number phone or other item and do not wish to be identified, send me a PM.

Some phones were apparently made in batch(es) and all have the same date. Even if the F-number phone you have has been mentioned already, let us know you have one also, and what it is dated.

It has been pointed out that a particular F-number phone may exist as a field trial set (internally complete) or a sample phone (missing internal components), again let us know if you have a variant, also if marked "Non-working" as some samples were.

My intention is to create a database of individual phones and other items and BSP identified numbers, but publish just the compilation, noting variants and perhaps quantities reported.

This is a work in process, feel free to make suggestions.

[unbeldi]

As I suggested earlier, F-numbers were used for any part in limited production, that means they are not telephone type numbers.  Some parts initially had an F-number, before they got a type designation, for example the 6T and 6U dials (1969-1971).

I have not observed a difference in usage than the D-numbers, and it even seems that the numbering space may be congruous, despite that some D-number had six digits before later 5-digit numbers.
Even the GA-numbers appear to fall into the same space, but I have had only one.

There apparently are no numbers smaller than 5 digits, which is in agreement with general best practice recommendations for drawing numbers and such. On the upper end, the recommendation is that the limit should be 7 digits, as typing errors increase with larger numbers. The largest D-numbers I have seen from WECo were 6-digit numbers, I believe.