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Need help with WE 155G

Started by barrettt, October 16, 2018, 09:22:03 PM

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barrettt

Hi, fellow phone lovers.  I have been lurking for a few years and finally picked up my dream phone, a two-piece payphone.  I stripped and repainted the phone and a 653 subset and cleaned the interior parts.  In addition I bought one of Stan Schreier's coin Controllers so I could amaze my family and friends with how a 90 year old piece of equipment can still work like it did when new.

The problem is when I hooked it all up it didn't operate correctly.  I put in a dime, and after it went through the mechanism and tripped the switch on the coin relay I got a dial tone as expected.  However, about three seconds later the coin relay tossed the coin into the coin return.  I tried it several more times with two nickels and a quarter in addition to the dime, and each time I got the same result. When I put the coin in the slot, three lights on the coin controller illuminated which told me the controller was going to return the coin which it then did.  I checked the wiring and am almost certain I have it wired as in Stan's documentation  controller with the exception of one difference which is highlighted in the red circle on the wiring diagram.  The diagram shows a break in the red wire that goes from the subset to the phone, but I assumed that was in error and should have showed continuity in that wire.  I checked continuity in the switches to make sure they were all making contact, and they were.  Not sure what to troubleshoot next.  Please help! 

By the way I have about a dozen old phones in the house, all hooked up and usable.  My two twelve-year-old daughters can dial a number and have used the WE 553 which was on the garage wall to talk to their friends.  Got to love this hobby!

Tom

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EDIT: Images from first reply below were copied into Windows Paint, rotated and attached to this topic. The original images attached to this first post but which failed to display were removed

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=18551.0

barrettt

One more try with the photos...

Jim Stettler

Quote from: barrettt on October 16, 2018, 09:22:03 PM
The diagram shows a break in the red wire that goes from the subset to the phone, but I assumed that was in error and should have showed continuity in that wire. 
Tom
Tom,
Don't assume errors on Stan's controller information. Assume he is right and proceed accordingly.
JMO,
JIm S.
BTW welcome to the forum .
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

barrettt

Jim:  Thanks for the response.  I was HOPING that wasn't the cause, but I'll have to suck it up and rewire to see if that fixes it. Will have to wait til tomorrow.

Tom

Jim Stettler

Quote from: barrettt on October 16, 2018, 10:31:38 PM
Jim:  Thanks for the response.  I was HOPING that wasn't the cause, but I'll have to suck it up and rewire to see if that fixes it. Will have to wait til tomorrow.

Tom
If you got the full pack of info with the controller, you should be able to get it to work.
The key is to have phone components and wiring the same as they were when the phone was in service.
As you noticed, the controller can be used as a diagnostic tool. Fix the first problem and try again. the controller will show the next problem if any.
Good-Luck,
Jim S,
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Key2871

It sounds like a timing issue. Is there something that can be causing a break in the line connection, making the controller thing the receiver is being returned to the hook switch?
Are the contacts dirty causing a fault in connection either with the hook switch, or the coin relay?
KEN

tubaman

#6
That does look like an error (poor print) on the diagram, otherwise it doesn't really make sense.
I assume you have followed note 3 - ie no link between the R and REC terminals (as you have a dial)?
:)

barrettt

Quote from: Key2871 on October 17, 2018, 09:23:40 AM
It sounds like a timing issue. Is there something that can be causing a break in the line connection, making the controller thing the receiver is being returned to the hook switch?
Are the contacts dirty causing a fault in connection either with the hook switch, or the coin relay?
The first thing I thought was that the hook swhich was showing as hung up rather than off hook. I ohmed out the switches, and they showed zero ohms.  I checked the switch on the coin relay as well, and it was showing good contact.
Quote from: tubaman on October 17, 2018, 10:07:16 AM
I assume you have followed note 3 - ie no link between the R and REC terminals (as you have a dial)?
:)

I did see that note and confirmed that I did not have a jumper.  I am going to try to re-wire the phone this evening, but unfortunately my daughters have a lot of math homework and I am their no cost tutor...

Tom

barrettt

OK, I finally had a chance to sit down and start troubleshooting the phone.  First thing I did was ohm out the hook switches again, and both showed zero ohms when the hook was up and open when the hook was down.  I connected the phone in accordance with Stan's diagram, removing the red wire I had connected between the R on the subset and the R on the terminal strip of the phone and connecting the R wire from the terminal strip to the Ring wire and the R wire from the terminal strip to the Tip wire.

When I tested the phone, the three lights came on on the controller as soon I inserted the coin, and the coin was returned a few seconds later, same as with my original configuration.  However, this time I tried the dime with the receiver on hook, and the same thing happened as when it was off hook.  When I tested it in my original configuration the dime would only be returned when the phone was off hook.  When it was on hook I would get the same three lights, but the dime would not return until I lifted the receiver off hook. If it matters, in both configurations, I had the front of the phone removed while testing and just connected the four connects between the front and rear with four alligator clip leads.

After the dime returned while the phone was on-hook I checked the hook switches, and the front switch was not shorted but was 25 ohms.  The rear switch was still open as I would have expected.  I disconnected the receiver, and the ohms went up to 309 ohms across the front hook switch.  I ohmed the receiver, and it read 25 ohms so I had hoped that its resistance was somehow getting across the hook switch and removing the receiver would make that front hook switch open again when the phone was on-hook.  I haven't figured out what's causing the 309 ohms across the switch now.

One other thing:  I looked at the circuit diagram in Stan's controller instructions, and when I highlighted the tip wire circuit in red it didn't appear logical, I'm no expert and would appreciate someone's explanation on how this circuit is supposed to work.  I attached it below.

OK, hope this wasn't too confusing!  Looking forward to advice!

Tom

barrettt

I got an email from Stan confirming that my original wiring configuration is correct.  He recommends connecting the phone directly to the line and seeing if it works without the controller before troubleshooting further.  More to come...

Tom

barrettt

Phone worked fine connected directly to the line.  I talked to Stan, and he asked me to send him the coin relay and controller so he can see if he can get them to work together.  I guess these phones (namely, the double coil coin relays) can be pretty finicky so I hope we can get it operating.  No sense in having a payphone if I can't get it work like it did originally!

Tom