2500 keypad wiring

[MaximRecoil]

Move just the red line cord wire to A for now. See if it will ring. (There won't be a dial tone yet.) (Remove the jumper from L2 to A for now.)

I removed the L2-to-A jumper, and moved the red line cord wire to terminal "A". It actually does have a dial tone like that, though weird things happen if I press any of the keys. In any case, it still doesn't ring like that.

Are you sure the black wire on S is from the modular line jack, and not from the ringer? (I can't tell in the photo.)

Yes, absolutely sure; black line cord wire on S, black ringer wire on L1. I checked and rechecked those two wires many times last night (because it would be easy to mix them up), and just checked them again for good measure. I've even done a continuity test on both ringer wires, i.e., from where they are soldered to the ringer coil to the terminals they are screwed to on the network, and they are both fine.

[poplar1]

There should not be a dial tone with only the red line cord wire on A, the red ringer wire on K, and the black ringer wire + the green line cord wire + the green hookswitch wire on L1. Since the yellow switch wire is still on L2 and no other wires on L2, there should  not be a dial tone. (No jumper from A to L2.)

[MaximRecoil]

There should not be a dial tone with only the red line cord wire on A, the red ringer wire on K, and the black ringer wire + the green line cord wire + the hookswitch wire on L1. Since the yellow switch wire is still on L2 and no other wires on L2, there should  not be a dial tone.

But there is a dial tone with it wired that way.

Edit: Wait... I moved the red handset wire to A instead of the red line cord wire. I'll fix that...

[MaximRecoil]

Okay, I moved the red handset wire back to T (where it is paired with the red dial wire), and moved the red line cord wire from L2 to A (and there is no jumper between L2 and A). The results are: no dial tone and still no ringing.

[poplar1]

Does the ringer clapper try to move when energized, and will it move freely if you push it? I would think that either the 2-wire ringer coil is open or the capacitor (A-K) is open.

[MaximRecoil]

Does the ringer clapper try to move when energized, and will it move freely if you push it? I would think that either the 2-wire ringer coil is open or the capacitor (A-K) is open.

As a test, I went back to the way it was wired when I posted that wiring chart in reply #27 (which includes the jumper wire), and I disconnected the ringer wires and hooked up the ringer wires from the SC ringer instead, and it rings. So the WE ringer is obviously bad, which is bizarre, because not only do those rarely go bad, but I could have sworn that it worked before I swapped the keypads. In any case, thank you very much for all your help. I should have tried it with a different ringer in the first place.

[MaximRecoil]

I swapped the coil from the plastic-framed SC ringer into the metal-framed WE ringer, so that makes it work while allowing me to keep the metal-framed ringer at least. Of course, that leaves the SC with a non-functioning ringer. Is there a source for replacement ringer coils, or would I need to buy a whole ringer?

So the WE phone with the SC keypad is working 100% now, and I have it put back together. I love the way the metal keypad looks, and furthermore, it has the best key press feel of any phone keypad I've ever used; even better than the metal one in my Western Electric Model 1C payphone:

[MaximRecoil]

I fixed the bad WE ringer coil and moved it back into the WE ringer. Based on a suggestion from TelePlay, I checked the solder joints and I could see (under a magnifying glass) that on one of the terminals the hair-thin coil wire wasn't part of the solder joint anymore, but rather, it was just resting against the terminal. This resulted in extremely high DC resistance across the coil (1.1 megohms). I resoldered it (and the other terminal for good measure) and it works fine now.

[HarrySmith]

That does look pretty cool with the metal keypad. Nice work.

[RotarDad]

I second Harry's thoughts!  Great job of persistence and teamwork getting this phone back in action.  The metal buttons are awesome!

[MaximRecoil]

I wired the WE type 72 dial to the SC network this morning, and it works, except there's a ringer issue again. The clapper vibrates when a call comes in, but not enough to hit either of the gongs.

This is the same SC ringer that worked fine yesterday when I swapped it into the WE phone (and I know for a fact it worked fine before I did any of this dial swapping).

Yesterday, when it was definitely working in the WE phone, I measured the resistance across its coil at about 4 kOhms (and after I resoldered the non-working WE ringer coil, which fixed it, it also measured at about 4 kOhms). It still measures ~4 kOhms, so there's nothing wrong with the coil.

For wiring the type 72 dial I used the information from this post:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16168.msg167571#msg167571

There was a part I wasn't sure of though. In the summary it says:

"(3) Move black handset wire from R to B"

But at the bottom of the post it indicates that, for a type 72 dial, the black handset wire goes on T. I tried it on both B and what I was substituting for T (E2), and it didn't make any difference.

Another thing: when you dial, the tones are quite loud through the receiver; significantly louder than normal. It sounds like the maximum volume that a receiver can output.

Here's how it's currently wired:

Network Terminals

R  -  Red/green dial wire
      Red handset wire
      Green handset wire
      Slate/red hook switch wire

GN -  White dial wire
      White handset wire
      Slate/black hook switch wire

F  -  Green dial wire
      Slate/white hook switch wire

E1 -  White/blue dial wire
      Black line cord wire

K  -  Red ringer wire

G  -  Yellow line cord wire

L1 -  Slate/green hook switch wire
      Green line cord wire
      Black ringer wire

L2 -  Jumper wire to terminal "A"
      Red line cord wire
      Slate/yellow hook switch wire
      Slate hook switch wire

A  -  Jumper wire to terminal "L2"

RR -  Black dial wire

C  -  Orange/black dial wire

B  -  Blue dial wire

E2 -  Red dial wire
      Black handset wire

Dial Terminal

D  -  Slate/brown hook switch wire

[Jim Stettler]

In regard to the ringer:
Long ago  I heard that you shouldn't disassemble a 500 set ringer. It has something to do with the coil and the permanent magnet.
Perhaps someone here knows a little more about it.

Jim S.

[MaximRecoil]

In regard to the ringer:
Long ago  I heard that you shouldn't disassemble a 500 set ringer. It has something to do with the coil and the permanent magnet.
Perhaps someone here knows a little more about it.

Jim S.

That's interesting. The WE coil that I removed, resoldered, and reinstalled in the WE ringer assembly works fine, and before I did that, the SC coil worked fine when swapped into the WE ringer assembly. Maybe I just got lucky with those and my luck ran out. I wonder what about the permanent magnet could be affected by removing the coil and reinstalling it. Everything is in the same orientation as before.

I suppose I should try a known-good ringer in this now. I thought this was a known-good ringer, since it worked yesterday.

[MaximRecoil]

I tried it with a known-good ringer and it rings. That's bizarre. I can't imagine how removing a coil and then reinstalling it in the exact same place could change anything.

I'm still wondering if the rest of the wiring is correct though. I don't think the touch-tones should be that loud in the receiver. And should the black handset wire be on B or T?

[Jim Stettler]

I tried it with a known-good ringer and it rings. That's bizarre. I can't imagine how removing a coil and then reinstalling it in the exact same place could change anything.

That was always my opinion as well.
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  I think it had to do with the plates of the core of the coil, and the permanent magnet. The plates shouldn't be shifted and the magnet need to be installed in the same polarity as before.
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Ringers for 500/2500's  are easy to come by. All you need is a busted up, modular phone that you don't feel guilty about using as a parts phones.

JMO,
Jim S.