Classic Rotary Phones Forum

There is another Orchid AE40 on eBay at the moment. A 10 day auction starting at $250 with free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/112300679019

Automatic Electric Monophone
This is a Very Rare Historic Original Phone in Original Condition, Works!
Looks like heavy bakelite base and hand set.
From what I could find, I believe it to be the AE40 (or #40).
Blue colored with chrome colored bands and dial.
Cord is in great condition. no fraying. Handset is in Good condition Too!
Rubber going around the bottom is showing its age - dry and "crackly." with one spot broken off (see Photo)
Ear portion of the handset is yellowed.
The two plungers in the handset cradle bounce back perfectly.
I bought an adapter for a wall land line years ago. I used to use this phone myself. Its been years since I got rid of my land line so it has not been used for sometime. I can see no reason why it shouldn't still be able to work fine.

This phone is Auction Contest #264 here:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=17654.0

Terry

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Dear Forum:

Here are couple of AE 40 codes from two AE 40's I saw on eBay:

The first is a AE 40 Painted blue, but shows Orchid internally as the original color: L4505 DSLH SN7

Number two is a black with chrome trim AE 40 with a numerals only dial. The fingerwheel, lift bar, and bands on the handset caps are chrome.

Its code is N 4029 A9 LO1.

What do you think on these?

Its beyond me why someone would repaint an Orchid AE 40; if I did that, at least I would choose a paint that would closest match the original color.

Now on the black with chrome trim AE 40, maybe we're starting to get somewhere.

RotoTech99

Quote from: RotoTech99 on February 14, 2017, 06:53:09 PM
Dear Forum:

Here are couple of AE 40 codes from two AE 40's I saw on eBay:

The first is a AE 40 Painted blue, but shows Orchid internally as the original color: L4505 DSLH SN7

Do you mean this one? The consensus is that it's not painted, just discolo(u)red.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=17654.msg182383#msg182383

Quote from: AE_Collector on February 11, 2017, 09:51:22 PM


These are a tough call, one of the rare AE colors though this color virtually never is what it is supposed to be (Orchid/Purple) but instead is almost always this nice light blue color. They can be sanded back to Orchid but I've heard that they start turning light blue again quite soon.

Terry

That's the one; if you look inside the housing, it shows as Orchid, and it does not look painted; it has the "factory shine" of the original color. Now perhaps some of the orchid is faded, but it looks to be the original color.

If you look at the handset grip, you'll see orchid showing through there.

If that was painted Orchid, the finish would not be as shiny as the molded color is.

With all respect, I doubt that the light blue finish is original to the set; Maybe it was repainted aftermarket at one point,
but I believe it was probably repainted to utilize old stock, and the original orchid was possibly too faded to return to original or very close to original.

So i must respectfully disagree with the consensus thus far.

RotoTech99

RotoTech99

Dear Forum:

It is possible I could be in error on this one, but has anyone looked to see if there might be a line delineating the two colors? that can be evidence of color fade, or, if a housing was painted.

I would suggest higher resolution pictures may help determine better if the AE 40 in question was painted over orchid, or faded orchid.

RotoTech99

Quote from: RotoTech99 on February 14, 2017, 08:12:07 PM
Dear Forum:

It is possible I could be in error on this one, but has anyone looked to see if there might be a line delineating the two colors? that can be evidence of color fade, or, if a housing was painted.

I would suggest higher resolution pictures may help determine better if the AE 40 in question was painted over orchid, or faded orchid.

RotoTech99

Here is an old post:http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5757.msg69489#msg69489

Quote from: kleenax on November 13, 2011, 09:35:17 AM
I would leave as-is for sure.  As homogeneous as that Robins-egg Blue is, the fading must be pretty deep. And no, this is not the example that I found with all of those other AE phones; that one is squirreled away!

After examining about 6 or 7 original Orchid AE's, (1As, 40s and 1 - 50!), it is obvious to me that the orchid pigment must actually leach out over time, leaving the base color of light blue. It's just strange to me how the light blue doesn't fade though once it gets to that point.

We have come a long way in plastics and pigmenting. Most (not all) of the pigments that I use actually cross-links with the plastic at the molecular level, so it can't fade; it becomes part of material.   

"One can't see the beauty around them until they open their eyes." -RotoTech99

Well, in this case, I guess I've been "overlooking" a faded beauty as far as phones go; but I have seen some instances of a good color over painted with a different color that "rang my something's off alarm"...

Discoloration is really not the subject matter of this topic.

Of the few orchid sets that show up, not a single one has the original color anymore, AFAIK.  It is apparent that the dyes used are unstable and quickly discolor into blue.
The orchid shades on the handset area where it rests on the cradle are due to the constant polishing from friction during use and lack of light to the areas when on the cradle.

Since this thread is about codes, the order number of the set was 4045, not 4505, btw.
Here is my record of the set:
L 4045 DSLH SN7; D-780504 A41; Orchid; chrome trim; chrome metro dial (Z|OPER|0) two-line num card; ext cord, >1952

Below is another orchid set in a different state of discoloration, most likely from 1955 or later.
L 4044 ASLH PB1; D-780504 A41; Orchid, gold trim, gold metro dial NoZ, OPER|0 , Extensicord, 2x700 Ω ringer
This set shows a very gradual discoloration on the underside of the handset.

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The mixup on part of the code was my error, I wrote it down wrong.  Thanks for catching my error, I probably wouldn't have caught it as fast as I'm doing other things while I browse.

BTW: For color fade, the AE 40 you PSR pictured in your reply looks very nice.

RotoTech99

It is not called "fading", but discoloration.
They are pretty much opposites of one another.

I still say it looks good :-)

It does seem unusual that it changes colour so evenly so that in the end it is still a very nice colour.

I do recall seeing an Orchid AE set listed on eBay once in the past that was still Orchid rather than light blue but I don't know if someone had done something to restore the color or whether it hadn't changed colour for some reason. Virtually every other one that I have seen is the identical same light blue colour.

One other interesting scenario is the phones that Ray K found. Note this "as found" Orchid AE 1A with the base extension that makes it either an AE 31 or AE32 (I can never remember which). For what ever reason, the base extension seems to have remained Orchid while the 1A did the usual colour change. These had been stored for years before Ray found them. It is interesting to see that where a dial once was the color stayed Orchid yet presumably the dial had been removed for years before Ray found them but that spot behind the dial stayed Orchid colour even though it is now just as exposed as the outside of the shell. Maybe having been stored in boxes without light or air circulation prevented any colour change in the exposed area normally hidden under the dial.

Terry

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The long-term stability of the dyes is likely quite different in different types of plastic, even different types of cellulosics, specifically. From the 1930s to the 1950s is a long time during which polymer chemistry advanced significantly. This may not always have had positive effects on dye longevity.

Then there was this Orchid AE 40 from 2011 (Auction Contest #69) (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4996.0) which was before my time so only had two pictures, one of which seems to be a perfectly changes exterior but the interior of the handset shows its true color.  Sold for $4,350 in June of 2011.

And then there was this Orchid AE 40 in transition from Orchid to Blue (Auction Contest #78) (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8068.0) which sold for a very cheap $473 back in December 2012. Seems the handset bands went missing some time after the color change began (plastic under the bands was protected from that which changes the color as is the interior surfaces.

The bands go missing when the phone shrinks. They just fall off. That last one really did some shrinking and warping.

Terry

Quote from: AE_Collector on February 14, 2017, 10:23:21 PM
It does seem unusual that it changes colour so evenly so that in the end it is still a very nice colour.

Just a guess here but after looking at all of the images in different states of color change, I'd say that Orchid's final state is the Blue seen on a few of these phones, that is, all of the orchid given enough time will change to the blue and then stop changing. The final state of orchid after changing is that light blue and it then stays light blue forever. So, the phones that are entirely blue have totally reached their final state in the color change process. Those that show orchid and blue and some percentage of the way toward becoming all blue. That's why the bottom of the handset where it sits on the cradle still shows a bit of orchid, it was sheltered from the color change agent and as such has not completed the process to pure blue. Everything that is unstable when created will eventually reach its stable state (lot of jokes there, I know).

Quote from: AE_Collector on February 15, 2017, 02:09:39 AM
The bands go missing when the phone shrinks. They just fall off. That last one really did some shrinking and warping.

Terry

This last orchid set is from early WWII period, possibly the first couple of years of the model line. The plastic used at that time was probably cellulose triacetate, similar to the type first used by WECo in that period (1940-42), which is subject to severe shrinkage.  Although CAB (cellulose acetate butyrate) was already known and available about that time, it was not used until the late 40s/early 50s, and those sets clearly do not shrink anymore, as is also demonstrated by the 500-series telephones by WECo. While the rings don't fall off anymore, the orchid dyes still didn't hold up over time.

In this war-period AE 40, the orchid dye appears to be turning into gray.  This is fading and not discoloring. Fading is the vanishing of color into a neutral, gray or white, appearance, an effect of bleaching by light or oxidants.

Here is a photo of an AE 1A set in Orchid that for some reason has NOT discolored.  It is the only AE Orchid set that I have ever seen that still retains it's original color.  I have not sanded or polished this set in any way except with Novus.  However, as you can see by looking at the rubber base ring, the plastic has shrunk in diameter by about 1/4 inch.  All the handsets pieces have shrunk also.  When you collect these vintage colored telephones, you have to be willing to accept some compromises, because most of them will have some issues due to aging of the plastic.

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That is an absolutely gorgeous telephone. Hard to believe that such amazing looking telephones were available at a time when almost everyone had a clunky black phone of one type or another. And look at many of the trash telephones that are currently produced in comparison.

Nothing stamped on the base of that one?

Thanks for sharing Jon!

Terry

I did see a trash phone that color once.  I think they called the color Passionate Purple.  The style of the phone resembled that of a Trimline desk model.

Quote from: andre_janew on February 15, 2017, 06:30:54 PM
I did see a trash phone that color once.  I think they called the color Passionate Purple.  The style of the phone resembled that of a Trimline desk model.

I have seen a violet color plastic  WE trimline (fat mod). It was offered and sold for around $500.00, It did not have matching cords. One collector had the base, another had the handset, A third collector  bought the parts from the other 2 and created the phone. I was interested in buying it, but the $ was a little high for me. The previous owner is a member of  the forum.
JMO,
Jim S.

I know who bought the Orchid 40 that TelePlay posted in reply 14 of this topic. The one that was also
(Auction Contest #78) (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8068.0).  Bill is "Dycom" here on CRPF. Before and after pictures below. I asked him about the restoration and here is what he said:

My orchid was the cheap one and it was a lot of work.  I did sand it and they can handle it-- I believe I started with 280 went to 320/400/ and a light bit of 600.  After the 600 I used my 1800 rpm buffer with a 6 inch wheel and blue compound on the wheel. It turned out fine.  The spots that were good (underside of handset etc.) were just polished with the buffer.  Most of this phone was past the blue and into a grey colour. I built a jig for the warped base and used clamps and heat to get it straight again--the handset was shrunk enough that I had to ream the interior to get the rec. and trans. elements to mount--also had to cut the handset rings and silver solder them back together and then sent them off to get gold plated--a fairly extensive effort.

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No Terry, No, nothing marked on the bottom, but I don't remember if I put a different baseplate on it or not.  If the baseplates are too badly corroded, I generally will change them out.