Trying to get my grandpa's and mom's old rotary phones working over Comcast

[jsowers]

I'm surprised at this post..... I thought for sure someone would have directed him to a schematic to start with.... that way he could verify the wiring on his phone for himself...

You really don't need a schematic to check ringer connections in a 500 set. Just a picture of how it's connected will do.

I think it's time to look for a new C4A ringer. Either from a donor phone or bought on eBay. I don't know what the thrift store situation is out there in Yosemite, but you could get lucky and find a 500 set cheaply in a thrift store this weekend. So many were made and their ringers are usually interchangeable and they hardly ever die. Consignment shops might be a good place too. Church yard sales. Flea markets. There are many places. You might find another great old phone or two and have a nice time looking.

Try to find a Western Electric phone if you can. Even a wall phone will do. You could get a phone with a frequency ringer if you get a Kellogg or SC phone since they were used by independent telcos who often had party lines. Take a screwdriver and open it up before you buy, just to be sure. A frequency ringer usually has a large clapper and won't easily move back and forth and on a 500 party line set there will usually be a large capacitor on the ringer somewhere. What you want to find is a straight line ringer meant for a private line. It would also have all four wires connected to the network, like the one in your phone.

If you want to dive into your Kellogg ringer and try to repair it, then by all means do it. I just replace them. You can remove your ringer and look for broken wires and such and maybe luck out that way, but chances are it just needs to be replaced for reliable service.

[Babybearjs]

its just easier to explain when the person has the wiring schematic in front of them.....

[Jim Stettler]

A lot of folks aren't very good at reading schematics (myself  included).
It is easier for me to trace the circuit or compare it to photos.
I suspect most newbies to the forum, would find it easier to compare a photo.
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The easiest way I found to learn telephone schematics is to compare the schematic to a properly wired phone. and trace out the circuit in comparison to the schematic.

Just my opinion,
Jim S.

[oliveiracj6]

Hey guys

I thought I remembered a coworker telling me he still had a real land line.  I was kind of surprised by this, but I thought 'what the heck'.  I brought the phone to work and was going to ask him to check the ringer for me.  I figured if it worked at his place, it was probably the voltage.  If not, it was probably the wiring or something along those lines.  Unfortunately, he doesn't still have a land line.  I know my phone company kind of pushed me out of mine years ago, which is how I ended up with Comcast.  It sounded like a common issue at my lunch table.  I'm not sure if that's true across the US, but it certainly seems true in the Modesto/Escalon/Oakdale area of California.

Anyway, I'm definitely not an expert of schematics, mechanics, electronics, etc.  Having said that, I turned a Mortal Kombat arcade game into a mame emulator for my nephews when my brother added his game room.  It forced me into schematics, soldering, etc.  I wasn't great at it, but the thing worked for years.  Sadly, it's fallen on hard times, so I have to relearn everything to fix it!    haha.  I know that I'm going to have to pull the monitor control board and perform a cap kit.  I'm not 100% excited with my current soldering skills, but I think, in the end, I'll be able to pull it off.  Also, I'm a 'newbie' to the maker community and have some ideas of things I'd like to build, so this stuff is right up my alley in terms of stuff I'm interested in learning about.

Anyway, I had matched the wiring up based on dsk's description as well as some pictures I found online.  However, that was only for the part that looks to be called the network (not sure I have that correct, but it's what Russell Zachary's decomposed Kellogg k-500 picture shows).  Since they matched up (and I really can't imagine anyone opened the phone as I'm by far the only person in my family interested in this stuff in any way), I figured it was wired correctly.  I am interested in taking the rest of the phone apart and reading what each parts does though.  So, I'd love to check each part of the phone as part of that process to see what makes it work.

I have a multimeter (and more importantly for me - the instructions), so I'm usually able to figured out what I need to in terms of continuity checks, voltage, etc.  I just don't know which parts to check for what!  haha.

Ultimately, I feel like jsowers is correct.  I probably need to find a similar phone on the cheap and change the ringer out.  I'd just like to know that will fix the problem.  Really though, it looks cheap enough to try first for sure.  I really hope it's not a voltage issue, as the fixes for that don't look cheap (unless I'm missing something). 

So, I'm happy to check schematics (I'll look for some this weekend), but if you have any ideas of parts I can check with a multimeter I'd like to do that for fun.

Thanks again to all of you guys.  It's really cool to learn about this stuff and it makes me wish I'd taken it up much earlier.  It's really refreshing to know that there are just so many good people out there willing to help others out where they can...

Best wishes.

[poplar1]

With the ringer leads disconnected, there should be about 2650 ohms between the red and the slate/red leads, and about 1000 ohms between the slate and black leads.

[dsk]

Time for some documentation:


Her you may use your meter and test if the resistance is not far from the values stated. 
I f you have a capacity meter you could disconnect one of the wires A or K, and measure between A-K.


dsk

[dsk]

Ringer info:
dsk

[oliveiracj6]

Thank you guys for the schematics and advice.  I didn't have as much time on it as I wanted, but I found out a couple of things that I thought were interesting.  My slate/red wire was wired to the A and the slate was wired to the K.  If I understood the schematics correctly, it should be the opposite.  I was happy because I thought I'd found my problem, but reversing them didn't get it. 

Just to clarify, is it slate to A and slate/red to K? 

Also, my resistance check shows 2.59 at the 20k setting between red and red/slate.  I guess I'm confused on my conversion, but it shows that it's 0.01k ohms in the instruction book.  I'm not sure how math in electronics works, but it seems like it's 1/100 of a thousand, which would make it 10 x 2.59 for a resistance of 259?  But when I put it on the 2000 ohm  setting it gives me a 1, so I'm guessing it really is 2,590 resistance and I simply don't know how to read the meter correctly.  If you could give me a pointer on that, I'd appreciate it!

However, I'm getting a 1 reading between the slate and black leads.  I wasn't sure if it was supposed to be between the red/slate and black readings and I got a 1 reading on that as well.  I'm assuming my problem lies here, but I'm not sure!  haha.

Thanks again for everything.  It's frustrating, but I'm enjoying this!

[dsk]

2,590 is 2,59 x1000  (k=1000) = 2590 ohms. that's OK  At the same settings the other part should give you 1,000 and at 2000 it should have been 1000.  A mix of terminals A and K does not actually matter, but the direction of the coils matter, and it seems to be OK at your pictures. 

Between A and K inside that Network, it is only a capacitor of approx 0.6 microfarad, This capacitor may be defect, It may happend, bit that is far from common.  If you have a capacitor to put in as a replacement we could try that too.  For the testing purpose any non polarized capacitor 0.5 to 1.5 microfarad  rated 200V or moreshould do. 

If you don't have such capacitor, you may find one in the trash, typical inside LED lamps/bulbs made as replacement for ordinary lamps.

dsk

[oliveiracj6]

I'm definitely not getting a reading between the slate and black readings.  I decided to take apart the network and have a look around.  Wow.  What a goopy mess!  I was definitely not expecting that! 

So, I guess I have a few questions:

1.  Will this capacitor work?  https://www.westfloridacomponents.com/AXM101/1uF+1+uF+200V+DC+10%26%2337%3B+Axial+Film+Capacitor+Sprague+735P.html

2.  If so, can I wire it outside the network between the posts (for lack of a better term)?  It seems like I should be able to, but I'm not sure if it would matter or not.

3.  If not, do you have any advice for that goopy mess?

4.  At this point, are you thinking it's the ringer, the network, or still not sure?

Thanks again for your time!

[dsk]

No Reading between black and slate is no good, but no crisis. Remove the black from its terminal, isolate it with tape. Then make a strap between the line terminal and the slate. Try it now!  Regarding the capacitor, for testing, yes.  For permanent use, only maybe.
dsk

[Greg G.]

Honestly, I'm getting sucked down the rabbit hole either way. 

Welcome to Wonderland!  Tea?

The WE Hotel phone looks nice.  I have one like it except it has a bulldog transmitter.  Show us some pics of the inside so we can see the dial type, wiring, maybe even a manufacture date stamp.  Mine works, but I don't use it as a daily driver for practical reasons.  Replacement receiver caps are not hard to find on ebay and other sources.  Someone here may even have one.

If you really want to use the hotel phone as a daily driver with good quality sound, you may have to install what's called a "mini network" and modernize some parts.  I don't know much about how that's done because I've never been too interested in it, but I'm fairly certain that can be done with minimal invasiveness so that it's totally reversible.

[oliveiracj6]

I just want to make sure I have this right.  I'm going to remove black from L1, tape it up, and run a wire from L1 to A?  Is that the plan?

Also, I'll try to get some pics up.  I've always loved that phone.  I thought it was about the coolest thing in the world when my mom bought it and put it up in our deli.  The ring is so distinct and awesome.  My boys can't wait until I have it up so they can use it.  I'm so dumb, I couldn't figure out how to mount it until I realized I was one screw away.  Man, I have a lot to learn!

Thanks again.  Totally excited about the progress on these things!

[dsk]

Yes, That is the plan.
dsk

[oliveiracj6]

Awesome.  Can't wait to try it.  Fingers crossed for sure.

Hoping to report tonight with good news and pics of inside of the WE phone.

I really appreciate your time and thoughts!