Model 354 Dialing Troubles

[poplar1]

5H and 6A are electrically the same. The Western Electric 5H was not manufactured after 1952, so 354s assembled after 1952 had the newer 6A dial.

5H and 6A short out the whole phone and open the receiver for the duration of the dial being wound up and returning to home. Dial on a 500 shorts the receiver only while dialing.

[ChristmasGuy]

Here is the dial, a WE 6A (11-54) model number P-339952 (#2 under this number). Currently used in a model 354 wall phone.

[dsk]

It is one more difference between the 500 and the 354, the shorting contacts are different. adding a 100 ohms resistor (approx) in series on one of the line terminals may give answer of if this has any impotrance.
It should not, but that is the reason for some phones getting trouble with * and # with dialgizmo's.  If you do not have the rsistor, try to move remove the wires from R and just connect them together with a paperclip/screw and nut or ....

dsk

[ChristmasGuy]

That was the fix! I first tested with the R wires off, then when I noticed it dialed out a full set of numbers I went back and soldered a 100 ohm resistor I had in stock! Fixed the problem seemlessly! I would have never thought to add a resistor! Probably why the whole of all my older phones dont work on this converter, im only adding it to the one that im going to be using on my home phone! Thanks to everyone that participated!

Status: Solved

[dsk]

Great to hear, 100 ohms should not lower the volume considerably, but if so, you may add a capacitor in parallel with the resistor 1-2 uF should do.

[dsk]

I would just made a unit close to the adapter, and all phones should work trough it.
Resistor of 100 ohms seems to work, it could even be less (maybe only 33 ohms?), but that is not easy to determine, only practical tests may tell so if it works OK...
Capacitor if needed e.g. 2.2 uF 200V.  1-5 uF will probably be fine.

[ChristmasGuy]

Thanks so much! The volume is a few decibels lower but im not pickey, in a quiet room I can hear it just fine, I dont have any 33 ohms on hand, just a few 10 ohms, I could test out 3 in series to make 30 bit that for me would look a bit messy, so atm Im just going to leave it be!

[ChristmasGuy]

I would just made a unit close to the adapter, and all phones should work trough it.
Resistor of 100 ohms seems to work, it could even be less (maybe only 33 ohms?), but that is not easy to determine, only practical tests may tell so if it works OK...
Capacitor if needed e.g. 2.2 uF 200V.  1-5 uF will probably be fine.

You seem good at electronics, I dont know when Im going to max out on being able to supply phones on my current network, we have Verizon fiber optic, I currently have 3 rotaries, 1 touch tone, 1 trimline and 1 external ringer on my system along with my parents 3 electronic new phones, I didnt know if you know just without any external equipment how many phones can you have on a new system? I heard some other people buy a viking box to make it able to have more phones in your home but its like 200 bucks.

[dsk]

That is another tricky question, the ringer load is measured in REN "Ringer Equivalence Number" that may actually be 3 different standards.  Usually the US telcos said max 5 REN that might be equal to 5 telephones like the WE500.  I have heard that some equipment does not cope with overload and you need to buy new, but usually to high load will result in that some of the phones (or all) stops ringing until you unplug the overload. In some cases the high load will result in that when you call in, it gets no ring, but for a short time the systems believes you go off hook and on hook again.
It is several solutions around that, The Panasonic PABX's (You have to find the right version) might be the most convenient, and those are sold to an OK pricing on eBay. I have tried wireless phone jack and those powers 2 phones more without loading the line considerably. (You need a pulse tone adapter on that).  Some has suggested to use the British system with master socket and divided ringer circuit, I have not tested that, but mainly you split one of the wires in 2 by an 1.8 uF capacitor, and connects all the ringers to that wire, then the load is limited by the capacitor, the ringer get less power each...

[ChristmasGuy]

That is another tricky question, the ringer load is measured in REN "Ringer Equivalence Number" that may actually be 3 different standards.  Usually the US telcos said max 5 REN that might be equal to 5 telephones like the WE500.  I have heard that some equipment does not cope with overload and you need to buy new, but usually to high load will result in that some of the phones (or all) stops ringing until you unplug the overload. In some cases the high load will result in that when you call in, it gets no ring, but for a short time the systems believes you go off hook and on hook again.
It is several solutions around that, The Panasonic PABX's (You have to find the right version) might be the most convenient, and those are sold to an OK pricing on eBay. I have tried wireless phone jack and those powers 2 phones more without loading the line considerably. (You need a pulse tone adapter on that).  Some has suggested to use the British system with master socket and divided ringer circuit, I have not tested that, but mainly you split one of the wires in 2 by an 1.8 uF capacitor, and connects all the ringers to that wire, then the load is limited by the capacitor, the ringer get less power each...

Will look into it! Thanks!

[5415551212]

ChristmasGuy I think we also need a better test basis than that old phone works unit.
I dont know much about your phone collection but I would recommend getting a known good something to check your rotary dials timing.

I use an old DP1900 dial intercom a power-supply from a old key phone system, and a string of 4 old 2.5V incandescent Christmas bulbs, all things I saved from the trash and cost me zero dollars.

If your really into collecting old phones  I highly recommend an old key 'shoebox' system with some type of intercom.
You can run many types of old phones off the key system not just key phones.

If you like to tinker with electronics you should check out this project:
http://www.mattmillman.com/projects/building-your-own-pulse-to-tone-converter/

Glad its working.
Cheers
--Stephen

[ChristmasGuy]

Thanks for the advice, I dont have the most money atm, but when I do I will look into a better system, currently have a lot of rotaries going though that OldPhoneWorks converter!