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Wiring Question

Started by HarrySmith, May 14, 2022, 04:08:59 PM

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HarrySmith

I am attempting to put a WE 425E network in a woodie. I picked up an empty wood wall phone years ago at a local auction. It was in storage for quite a while. It was redisovered during the move. The cabinet is in good shape but it was completely guuted, nothing inside. There is no dial and no ringer. I have 2 wires from the hook switch, 2 wires from the transmitter & 2 wires from the receiver. I tried hooking it all up like a 500 but I get nothing. Can anyone point me to a diagram that would work?
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

MMikeJBenN27

I would instead use a 101A induction coil, 195A condenser, and a terminal block,and hook it up like a manual - non-dial - 5302.  You should be able to find a ringer that will fit.  There is a way to use a 425B, but I can't remember how to wire it.  It will be trial and error, whereas using a 101A coil and a 195A condenser, you can use the wiring diagram for a 5302 phone.

Mike

HarrySmith

I went back and read the section here in our wiring diagrams for a manual 500. There was mention of a jumper between F & RR. I installed a jumper and it now works!
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

dsk

Great! The jumper F-RR is there because you have no dial. That part of the circiut it there as a spark protection for the pulse contacts, and of course not neede for you. :)


I was working on a scetch, but you solved it before I got it finished, but here it is for later use:

HarrySmith

Cool. Thanks DSK. I will save that diagram. Now I am moving on to the ringer. I have the ringer hooked up to the magneto and it works fine. I also want it to work on incoming calls. I know I need to add diodes to prevent the magneto current from entering the line. The problem is I just looked on Amazon and there are tons of choices and I am not sure what I should use. Any suggestions, recommendations or help would be appreciated.
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

TelePlay

I would go with 2 ringers, one for the phone line and one for the magneto.

Separating the circuits elimintes any chance of magneto voltage from getting into the POTS line.

MMikeJBenN27

Quote from: HarrySmith on May 15, 2022, 01:28:00 PMI went back and read the section here in our wiring diagrams for a manual 500. There was mention of a jumper between F & RR. I installed a jumper and it now works!
You had it wired right all along!

dsk

#7
Quote from: HarrySmith on May 15, 2022, 02:42:04 PMCool. Thanks DSK. I will save that diagram. Now I am moving on to the ringer. I have the ringer hooked up to the magneto and it works fine. I also want it to work on incoming calls. I know I need to add diodes to prevent the magneto current from entering the line. The problem is I just looked on Amazon and there are tons of choices and I am not sure what I should use. Any suggestions, recommendations or help would be appreciated.
It depends on what magneto you have, some of them has a contact set with a 3 wires, that would be easy to put in without disturbing the line.  A relay may also be a good, your generated current lets the relay move the ringer from the line to your magneto, and you are not connected to the line, at least not both wires. 


One solution may be like this:

HarrySmith

The magneto has only 2 contacts. I really want to keep the original ringer. I could easily add another ringer, but why do it the easy way? I have what I thought was a couple of diodes that I tried but they did not work. They may not be diodes or I may have done it wrong. Do I need 2 diodes, one on each wire or just one? I was thinking 2 in the same circuit may be the problem. I am confident that it will work with all the great minds here we can figure it out together!
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

TelePlay

#9
I'm not electrically smart enough to give you the best and safest way to use one ringer, but I do recall that a diode is to stop DC current from flowing in one direction and a magneto produces 70 to 100 volts AC.

You would need a full wave bridge rectifier, 4 diodes, to get the magneto down to DC and then what?

Ask Steph or Karl on the TCI if no one here can help you.

If you split out the magneto, you can keep the original ringer attached to the magneto and add a C4 500 ringer to match your network.

The problem is to keep 90VAC out of the 3 VDC talk circuit, the POTS line and 90 VAC out of the POTS line to the CO.

countryman

As mentioned by TelePlay, diodes won't help you.
Diodes can
-rectify AC to DC. This would not reduce the voltage, which still could harm the CO when sent down the line.
-Limit voltages by short-circuiting them. Normal silicon diodes have a flow voltage of ~0.7 Volt. Wired anti-parallel, a pair would limit any voltage to this value. (Special types are made to limit higher voltage levels, Zener diodes.) Unfortunately, this way you would also limit the ringing voltage from the CO, and your ringer would never ring...

I have seen a circuit somewhere that uses a 110 Volt AC relay to separate both circuits. The magneto voltage goes to the relay coil and when the relay comes on, it switches the ringer away from the CO line and onto the magneto circuit.

HarrySmith

Now I am more confused. As Teleplay stated I thought a diode was to stop current from flowing in one direction. That's what I was attempting to do. Use a diode to stop magneto current from reaching the network.
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

countryman

The ringer works with AC - current altering it's direction about 20 times per second!
A diode would act as a rectifier here and let every second half wave of current pass through.

Both your magneto and the CO send out AC of up to 90 Volt to activate the ringer.
There's no really easy way to prevent magneto voltage traveling down the line to the CO and possibly do damage there. The aforementioned solution with a relay would work. There may be more ways to do it and it would be interesting to read about them.

dsk

With only 2 connections on the generator, I would go for this solution. The relay should be any that works, typically it has a coil-resistance of 600-2000 ohms, a small 110V AC relay may be OK but 50V AC would be better.

dsk

On the other hand, it should be possible to make it simpler than this, but I need som detailed pictures of your generator, and how the switch in the end of the generator is working. Whne you start cranking it will probably be a set of contacts moving.