#6 Dial in a 302

[benhutcherson]

This came up in Dan/Panther's topic below, and it got me curious.

Apparently, 302s with a #6 dial are rather unusual, based on some of the responses to the topic. Based on my experience, however, this is not the case. I own 5 302s, two of which have a #6 dial. One of these is all date matched to '52, while the other one is a '49 set with the dial dating from '55.

Since Dennis himself has admitted to never having encountered a 302 with a #6 dial, I'm wondering just how uncommon such telephones are.

So, who among you has a #6 fitted to a 302?

[Dennis Markham]

Ben, I must add however, that I am only basing my statement relative to the #6 dials from my limited hands-on experience.  I haven't worked on a ton of 302's, maybe a dozen or two.  It seems they all had #5's but the #6's all were on 354's.  Maybe they (#6's) were more prevalent in some areas of the Country, or it's just luck of the draw.

[HobieSport]

Ben my one open '47 302 has a 5 dial.  Beginner's questions here, but when were the 6's first introduced, and is there a way to spot differences between a 5 and 6 dial from the outside face?  Thanks.

[bingster]

Three 302s here, two with #5, one with #6.

[benhutcherson]

Hobie,
I don't know exact dates for sure, but based on dates from my collection, the #6 came along in mid to late '52. I say that based on a 302 I have from early '52 which is fitted with a #5. Of course, this is only one data point, so I certainly wouldn't call this absolute.

The #6 dial is mechanically very similar to the 7-series dial used on 500 sets.

The external appearance is very similar with the fingerwheel installed. The shaft to which the fingerwheel attaches looks exactly like what you'd see on a 500 set, and you can(barely) see the difference in the gap between the number plate and fingerwheel. Of course, if you pull the fingerwheel, the difference is very obvious.

Also, #6 dials sound like #7 dials-the same gravel rolling around in a tin can sound. #5 dials tend to be fairly quiet, sometimes with a quiet clicking sound but not always.

[Dennis Markham]

There is often a black dot on the porcelain dial plate of a #6 dial.  It is hidden (black metal finger wheels) while the finger wheel is at rest, but visible with the clear finger wheels, near the finger stop.  Attached is a photo of a Rose 302 with a #6 dial.  Note the dot just above the finger stop.  

[Dan/Panther]

It may just be coincidence, but on the outside of the finger stop, mine is stamped 6.
I have 11, 302's, and this is the first one with a #6 dial. The base is marked 302G. It's also the only one with the model number stamped on the bottom.
I have at least 5 variations of the 302, so it appears that any variation has between a 10% to 20% chance of showing up by my figures.

D/P

[Dennis Markham]

I just went back and looked through some of my photo files of phones I have worked on and lo and behold I found at least one 302 that had a #6 dial.  The dial was dated 12/1953 and the rest of the phone from IV 52.  So my memory was distorted with regard to the #6 dial.  Also I found another photo of the porcelain from a black phone to show the dot from that #6 dial.  I'll post it with the photo above.

[BDM]

Two things here. The majority of the 302 life span was spent with the #5 dial. I'm sure many of these dials were on hand new, so replacements in service situations was easy. Probably rare given the actual failure rate. I would imaging #6 dials made their way into standard 302 sets by the mid 50s. Strictly as replacements. I know the two I have are marked 55 and 60. These are the two that came from plastic 302 part sets.

I've also seen them here & there on occasion, both on Ebag and swap meets over the last 15 years. Not common, but common enough it's no surprise to me.

What's funny, it seems as though the majority of the 354 sets came with #6 dials. Also, many of the hard rubber butt-sets I've encountered and own, have #6 dials. I imaging in the case of the latter, they were damaged in field service quite often. I have one that had a 1966 date on the dial. So that was replaced late, meaning those sets were probably in service into the early 70s. I would imaging TT coming on the scene caused a fast death for those type of butt-sets.

[bingster]

It may just be coincidence, but on the outside of the finger stop, mine is stamped 6.

Mine are stamped "6" on the fingerstop, too. 

[Sargeguy]

#6 dials are pretty common on 302s.  I have about owned about 18 300 series phones (302s, 304s, 305s, 352, 354, and 356, and a 251).  Three have 4H dials (two were #2 dial conversions), seven have #6 dials and the rest are #5.  Of the #6 dials, five are OEM while the others are retrofitted.  

The two wall phones both had original 6H dials,
Two of my 302s have original 6H dials
One of the 304s has an original 6H dial.  
My Pekin Red 302 has a #5.  
I have a metal bodied 302 from 1938 that came with a #6 dial and a couple others here and there have a #6, especially the non-Bell System phones.

[GG]

On the East Coast we frequently found 302s with #6 dials, in fact they were more common for a while than with #5 dials.

How to tell when looking at photos from the outside:

The #5 dial fits flush into the 302 housing.  The #6 dial sticks out of the housing a little (almost 1/4"), as if a #5 dial was mounted on 1/4" spacers. 

[Phonesrfun]

I don't know if this is always the case, but the 302 I have with a #6 dial has the number 6 stamped in the side of the finger stop.

[Babybearjs]

interesting subject, I have a newer #6 dial and when I put in in one of my 302's, I took it right back out.  the #5 dial sits flush with the case, the #6 is thicker and stands out.. almost looks ugly. I did'nt like it... but, from what I have seen, the #6 dials were used to replace the #5's when the phones were reconditioned and re-released. what do you think? 

[Kenny C]

There is no other Dial I would use in a 3" dial phone they are much quieter. And I just like them. That just my 0.02.