Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => Forum News => New Member Introductions => Topic started by: Marcelo L. on October 06, 2011, 04:25:36 PM

Title: Hello, New Member Here! - Marcelo L.
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 06, 2011, 04:25:36 PM
Hello,

I'm brand new to old telephones. I just picked up this Western Electric 202 Phone. I want to be able to get to it work with my Vonage (VOIP) phone service.

I've learned so far that my phone does not have an internal ringer and that I would need to get an external unit for it to function properly. Do I need a subset box or a ringer box or are they one and the same?

I've seen these phones for sale paired with black metal subset boxes; I much prefer the older
wooden boxes with the external bells, is this possible? If so, does it matter if it has a crank on it?

I've also read that I would need to upgrade the network to a modern network. I assume this is a component that is located within the subset/ringer box?

I just received the phone last night and gave it a good cleaning and polishing. I will have to replace the wiring as it is badly damaged. I'm also going to refelt the base.

Any other info, links, or resources you could send my way would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Marcelo
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: wds on October 06, 2011, 05:02:14 PM
Welcome to the forum!  Here's an example of a setup I put together for a family member - I used a 315 ringer box, and used the components from a 302 phone to act as the subset.  I used the original ringer from the 315 as it sounds wonderful, then all I had to add was the coil and condenser.  You can get 302's without a dial for about $20 with shipping, or with a dial for $30-40.  If you want to make the phone dial out, then get the 302 with the dial and use that dial in your D1.  My 315 oak box I got for cheap since it didn't have the generator, but did have the ringer.  I put a little elbow grease to it, and refinished it.  I think it turned out pretty good.  I can't help you with the VOIP - I'm sure someone else has that answer. 
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Doug Rose on October 06, 2011, 06:09:20 PM
Welcome to the Forum, oustanding refurb of yor phone. Tell us how you did it ........Doug
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: HarrySmith on October 06, 2011, 06:37:26 PM
Hi Marcelo,
Welcome! Nice job on cleaning it up! I agree the wood ringer boxes look much better! The one posted above with the 302 internals is a great example! Busted 302's are not hard to find as stated earlier you could get everything needed including a dial pretty cheap if you look. I do not know about Vonage but some here do and I am sure they will chime in. I do know there are pulse to tone converters out there so worst case you may need to add one in your ringer box.
A word of caution......this one phone will multiply quickly! I call it "phoneitis". Once it sets in it is progressive and incurable! The stricken person will be perusing ebay & craigslist endlessly searching for phones, he will awaken before the sun rises to get to flea markets and estate sales looking for anything phone related to satisy the craving. One phone turns into hundreds!
You are forewarned ;D
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 06, 2011, 07:47:09 PM
Quote from: Doug Rose on October 06, 2011, 06:09:20 PM
Welcome to the Forum, oustanding refurb of yor phone. Tell us how you did it ........Doug

Hey Doug, Thanks for the compliment. I used a damp rag with a little bit of dish washing soup to degrease and clean most of the grime. I followed that with a good polishing using No.7 Polishing compound. I went over the phone a few times until it was clean and smooth. After that I gave it a few coats of Turtle wax. There were a few small chips in the paint that I touched up with a black sharpie. I liked using the sharpie because it its not as glossy as touch up paint and it wont leave a glob. I found a picture of a dial card on the internet, printed it and cut to fit. All I have left to do is refelt the base and replace the wiring.   
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 06, 2011, 07:54:40 PM
Quote from: HarrySmith on October 06, 2011, 06:37:26 PM
Hi Marcelo,
Welcome! Nice job on cleaning it up! I agree the wood ringer boxes look much better! The one posted above with the 302 internals is a great example! Busted 302's are not hard to find as stated earlier you could get everything needed including a dial pretty cheap if you look. I do not know about Vonage but some here do and I am sure they will chime in. I do know there are pulse to tone converters out there so worst case you may need to add one in your ringer box.
A word of caution......this one phone will multiply quickly! I call it "phoneitis". Once it sets in it is progressive and incurable! The stricken person will be perusing ebay & craigslist endlessly searching for phones, he will awaken before the sun rises to get to flea markets and estate sales looking for anything phone related to satisy the craving. One phone turns into hundreds!
You are forewarned ;D



Harry, I know how that goes. I like to collect all kind of things; mainly useful antiques. I recently got into collecting antique desk fans from the early 1900's – 1950's, before that it was radios. I found this phone on ebay. I paid $24 shipped but I have to tell you, allot of the phones and ringer boxes I see on ebay are really pricey (as is of course with most collectibles)! I'm going to a big flea market this Saturday; hopefully I can find a nice ringer box.  
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 06, 2011, 07:56:46 PM
Quote from: wds on October 06, 2011, 05:02:14 PM
Welcome to the forum!  Here's an example of a setup I put together for a family member - I used a 315 ringer box, and used the components from a 302 phone to act as the subset.  I used the original ringer from the 315 as it sounds wonderful, then all I had to add was the coil and condenser.  You can get 302's without a dial for about $20 with shipping, or with a dial for $30-40.  If you want to make the phone dial out, then get the 302 with the dial and use that dial in your D1.  My 315 oak box I got for cheap since it didn't have the generator, but did have the ringer.  I put a little elbow grease to it, and refinished it.  I think it turned out pretty good.  I can't help you with the VOIP - I'm sure someone else has that answer. 

What a great example! This is exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks for posting!
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: LarryInMichigan on October 06, 2011, 08:23:33 PM
QuoteGary, I know how that goes. I like to collect all kind of things; mainly useful antiques. I recently got into collecting antique desk fans from the early 1900's – 1950's, before that it was radios. I found this phone on ebay. I paid $24 shipped but I have to tell you, allot of the phones and ringer boxes I see on ebay are really pricey (as is of course with most collectibles)! I'm going to a big flea market this Saturday; hopefully I can find a nice ringer box.

Marcelo,

Welcome to the forum.  Your phone looks great, and you got a great deal on it too.  I can identify with your collecting habits.  I also have a number of antique desk fans and radios, and alot of clocks as well.  I cannot resist things which are old, look good, and are useful.  Many people think that I am crazy when I tell them that I am speaking with them on a 75 year old phone and looking at a 75 y/o clock with a 80 y/o fan running nearby.

Larry
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 07, 2011, 09:26:49 AM
Quote from: wds on October 06, 2011, 05:02:14 PM
Welcome to the forum!  Here's an example of a setup I put together for a family member - I used a 315 ringer box, and used the components from a 302 phone to act as the subset.  I used the original ringer from the 315 as it sounds wonderful, then all I had to add was the coil and condenser.  You can get 302's without a dial for about $20 with shipping, or with a dial for $30-40.  If you want to make the phone dial out, then get the 302 with the dial and use that dial in your D1.  My 315 oak box I got for cheap since it didn't have the generator, but did have the ringer.  I put a little elbow grease to it, and refinished it.  I think it turned out pretty good.  I can't help you with the VOIP - I'm sure someone else has that answer. 

Is the ringer box below have the parts needed to perform the conversion you did on yours? Is this a fair price?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-No-300-Local-Battery-Ringer-Box-W-Oak-Cabinet-/300607503192?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fd9a7b58 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-No-300-Local-Battery-Ringer-Box-W-Oak-Cabinet-/300607503192?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fd9a7b58)  --  ( dead link 7/27-2018 )
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: wds on October 07, 2011, 09:31:15 AM
Yes, I believe so.  That doesn't look like a correct magneto, but I would pull that out anyway.  Keep in mind that this is a model 300 box, which is a little larger than my model 315 box.  If you don't mind the larger size, and with a little cleaning, this one should look real nice.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: LarryInMichigan on October 07, 2011, 09:33:31 AM
Marcelo,

You should probably be able to use the ringer in that box, and I think that $20 with shipping is a very good price.  You can buy the inductor coil and condenser for cheap from Steve Hilsz (http://phonesurplus.com/302parts.html (http://phonesurplus.com/302parts.html)) if you don't have a spare 302 and don't want a dial.

Larry
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: wds on October 07, 2011, 09:39:30 AM
I second that motion - for $5.50 you can buy the network parts from Steve to complete the subset.  On second thought, I might leave the magneto in there just for a conversation piece.  The description seems to indicate that the magneto doesn't work, but that's ok since you don't want to hook it up anyway.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 07, 2011, 10:02:45 AM
What's the magneto? Is it the piece that's attached to the inside of the door behind the bell? I thought the magneto was the piece inside the box that the crank attaches to.

Thanks for helping me out with all my newbie questions.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: LarryInMichigan on October 07, 2011, 10:10:38 AM
The magneto is the generator to which the crank is attached.  It was used to generate a voltage to ring the ringer.  You can leave it in place, but it will not be electrically connected to anything.  If it works, you could connect it to a low wattage light bulb for fun, if you wish.

Larry
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 07, 2011, 10:21:45 AM
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on October 07, 2011, 10:10:38 AM
The magneto is the generator to which the crank is attached.  It was used to generate a voltage to ring the ringer.  You can leave it in place, but it will not be electrically connected to anything.  If it works, you could connect it to a low wattage light bulb for fun, if you wish.

Larry

It appears that the unit listed on ebay is missing the entire magneto assembly (at least that's the way it appears in the pictures). The seller also mentions that it's a battery box, is this true? If so, what would the battery be for? 
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: LarryInMichigan on October 07, 2011, 10:27:54 AM
It does appear that the magneto is missing, and only the crank is left.  I don't know much about magneto subsets, but the local battery phones required batteries for power.  They may have been held in this box.

Note that, if you use the ringer in this box, , it will tap (ring) when other phones are dialed or other voltage changes occur on the phone line because it does not have a bias spring.  You can probably add you own spring or rubber band to hold the clapper still when it should not be ringing.

Larry
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 07, 2011, 10:42:13 AM
I'm going to a large flea market in upstate NY tomorrow morning. What would you say is a fair range in price for a typical wall mounted wooden subset ringer box? I'm having a hard time knowing what's a fair price, seeing as the prices are all over the place on ebay. I can find the same subset box from one seller go for $40, while another sells it for $150. I can't imagine these are all that rare to justify that kind of money.

Before I knew what these were, I used to run across them all the time at garage sales and flea markets for cheap.

If I don't find a nicer example tomorrow at the flea market I will definitely buy the one on ebay. 
 
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: wds on October 07, 2011, 10:59:20 AM
I think that is the magneto in the picture.  Later on they came out with those smaller magnetos - same thing they installed in the desk phone, like the leich's.  They don't put out quite as much current as the older ones, but they do work pretty well.  It could be the seller doesn't know that it's a new version magneto and thinks some parts are missing.  It could be complete and working.  For $20 that seems like a pretty nice box.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 09, 2011, 01:16:24 AM
I spent most of the day at the flea market today (technically yesterday) and was surprised at how little there was in telephones. It seemed that no one had a ringer box so I stopped at an antique shop on the way home and picked this one up. Now I know it looks rough, but it is complete and the bells do ring when I spin the crank. I can't seem to find a make or model number on the box. Does anyone know anything about this box?
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: GG on October 09, 2011, 04:19:03 AM


Externally it looks like WE, though for some weird reason I'm thinking there's a slight chance it could be Kellogg. 

There is one little piece missing that I can see, which is the cover for the bell clapper, which can easily be fabricated from aluminum sheet and painted black to match the gongs.

This is a complete subset with induction coil, so you could use it with a desk stand and get it working per original schematic, though if connecting it to a CO line, the generator should be disconnected to prevent an expensive accident if a friend comes over and tries to twirl the crank.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: wds on October 09, 2011, 10:06:58 AM
It looks like it says "Kellogg" on the plate covering the magnets.  I've tried to use those coils before, but they seem to only work on lower current - batteries.  They won't handle the current on today's phone lines. 
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: GG on October 09, 2011, 11:30:53 AM


Well I'll be darned, I didn't even see that writing on the plate over the magnets, but there it is!  I'm not even particularly familiar with most of these "wood box era" phones.  What I was thinking of was a) the position of the screw in the door, b) it sure ain't AE, so therefore c) if not WE, then Kellogg. 
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 09, 2011, 12:10:56 PM
Quote from: wds on October 09, 2011, 10:06:58 AM
It looks like it says "Kellogg" on the plate covering the magnets.  I've tried to use those coils before, but they seem to only work on lower current - batteries.  They won't handle the current on today's phone lines. 

So in other words; this box won't work for what I need it to do? I want to construct the same setup you posted earlier in this thread.

Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: wds on October 09, 2011, 12:35:59 PM
That's a very nice box you have, and it will work just fine.  I would probably leave all the original parts in the box to keep it original, then just add the two items you need to make a correct subset for your phone.  Another reason not to use those original components in your wood box is that they are sidetone, and your phone is anti-sidetone.  Get ahold of Steve Hilsz (earlier post), and order the coil and condensor.  There are wiring diagrams on this forum that will help you wire everything correctly.  

I have also wired these boxes so that you can use the ringer by turning the generator, and also have it connected to the phone line.  Makes for a great conversation piece.  
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 09, 2011, 01:02:27 PM
Quote from: wds on October 09, 2011, 12:35:59 PM
That's a very nice box you have, and it will work just fine.  I would probably leave all the original parts in the box to keep it original, then just add the two items you need to make a correct subset for your phone.  Another reason not to use those original components is that they are sidetone, and your phone is anti-sidetone.  Get ahold of Steve Hilsz (earlier post), and order the coil and condensor.  There are wiring diagrams on this forum that will help you wire everything correctly. 

I have also wired these boxes so that you can use the ringer by turning the generator, and also have it connected to the phone line.  Makes for a great conversation piece. 

OK - great! So All I need is a coil and condenser and I should be good to go. What about a network? I've read about people "upgrading the network" in their subsets, is this something I need to do?   
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: wds on October 09, 2011, 02:14:41 PM
No - the 101A induction coil and 195A condenser is the correct network for that phone.   Post a picture of the inside of the bottom of the phone, showing the wiring and contacts, and we'll put a wiring diagram together for you.  Also, are you going to put a dial in that phone?  If so, that will affect the wiring.  
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: wds on October 09, 2011, 02:44:11 PM
Also, while your ordering from Steve - I'm assuming you don't have an inventory of parts laying around - it looks like you might need a better wire between the handset and the phone base?  Steve would probably have one of those also.  I like the cloth cords, so maybe he would have a cloth one for sale.  Your cloth cord between the phone and the subset seems ok, but I can't see the whole cord. 
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 09, 2011, 04:00:38 PM
 Now that you mention it, I would love to put a dial on this phone. It never occurred to me before, but now that you mention it, and now that I've seen the phone from the inside, I can see how easily it would be to remove the metal blank and replace it with a dial.

Here's a picture with the bottom cover removed.   
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: wds on October 09, 2011, 04:07:55 PM
I know these wiring diagrams are on this forum - here's one that I saved.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 09, 2011, 04:12:08 PM
Quote from: wds on October 09, 2011, 04:07:55 PM
I know these wiring diagrams are on this forum - here's one that I saved.

This is perfect - thank you!

I did a quick search on ebay and did not have much luck finding a dial for my phone.  :(

I'm going to check out the "fore sale" section of this forum, maybe I'll get lucky.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: wds on October 09, 2011, 04:23:14 PM
Here's the wiring for the cord set to the "new" wooden subset box.  When you get the parts from Steve, we will help you wire up the components correctly.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 09, 2011, 04:25:15 PM
Quote from: wds on October 09, 2011, 04:23:14 PM
Here's the wiring for the cord set to the "new" wooden subset box.  When you get the parts from Steve, we will help you wire up the components correctly.

I don't think the picture uploaded.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: wds on October 09, 2011, 04:25:56 PM
double click on the pdf file right below my message.  
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: wds on October 09, 2011, 04:35:00 PM
Are far as a dial, that's why I like to buy a beat up 302, it has all the parts you need to make the subset, plus the dial.  I try to buy one that's in bad shape, that way I don't feel so bad stripping it for the parts.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 09, 2011, 04:43:25 PM
Quote from: wds on October 09, 2011, 04:25:56 PM
double click on the pdf file right below my message.  

Got it, thanks
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 10, 2011, 09:53:04 PM
Quote from: wds on October 09, 2011, 04:35:00 PM
Are far as a dial, that's why I like to buy a beat up 302, it has all the parts you need to make the subset, plus the dial.  I try to buy one that's in bad shape, that way I don't feel so bad stripping it for the parts.

I just purchased this bakelite 302 from ebay for just under $25+ shipping.

This should now give me everything I need for the dial conversion and subset, correct?


Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 10, 2011, 11:32:21 PM

I noticed that the dial face looked rather worn on this phone so I purchased a repro dial face overlay on ebay from a seller called oldphoneguy.

Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Kenny C on October 10, 2011, 11:51:13 PM
Your 302 has a 150B plate which has smaller numbers and red letters. That overlay is for a 150A plate. The 150A plates just have numbers and were used in rural areas that didnt have an exchange name and therefore didnt need the letters. I hope you didn't pay too much for it.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: GG on October 11, 2011, 03:03:41 AM


That 302 appears to be in darn good condition unless it's smashed in some place that isn't visible.  I'd say it's worth keeping as it is, and go looking for a smashed one to use as a parts donor. 

Note the area code and numeric number label.  That phone was in use somewhere at least into the late 1960s, long after 500s were universally installed for new service in Bell area.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: wds on October 11, 2011, 09:09:29 AM
It looks like that 302 has a nice 5H dial on it, which is a correct dial for your D1.  The worn numbers/letters are fine for display - remember, it's a 75 year old phone, so the numbers are allowed to be worn a little.  Gives it that authentic look. 
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 11, 2011, 09:18:26 AM
Quote from: Kenny C on October 10, 2011, 11:51:13 PM
Your 302 has a 150B plate which has smaller numbers and red letters. That overlay is for a 150A plate. The 150A plates just have numbers and were used in rural areas that didnt have an exchange name and therefore didnt need the letters. I hope you didn't pay too much for it.

Kenny, I'm using the 302 dial and the overlay on my older 202. I picked this dial overlay because I've seen a few 202's with numeric only dials and figured this would be correct. It should still fit, right?
(The dial overlay was $5 shipped)
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 11, 2011, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: GG on October 11, 2011, 03:03:41 AM


That 302 appears to be in darn good condition unless it's smashed in some place that isn't visible.  I'd say it's worth keeping as it is, and go looking for a smashed one to use as a parts donor. 

Note the area code and numeric number label.  That phone was in use somewhere at least into the late 1960s, long after 500s were universally installed for new service in Bell area.


GG, from the pictures and the seller's description the phone appears to be in pretty good cosmetic condition for its age, and it works! It was also upgraded with a modular plug so it will be easy enough to test once it arrives.

I will be removing the dial and network from this phone to get my 202 and Kellogg subset project working, but I will eventually source the parts to bring the 302 back to operational condition.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 11, 2011, 09:30:32 AM
Quote from: wds on October 11, 2011, 09:09:29 AM
It looks like that 302 has a nice 5H dial on it, which is a correct dial for your D1.  The worn numbers/letters are fine for display - remember, it's a 75 year old phone, so the numbers are allowed to be worn a little.  Gives it that authentic look. 

I agree with you on trying to keep some of the phone's patina but from the pictures it looks like the #1 is completely gone and wouldn't the numeric only dial be more suitable for an older 202?

Once I get the 302 in my hands I can make the final decision, sometimes you can bring old lettering back with pen or marker and a steady hand.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: LarryInMichigan on October 11, 2011, 09:34:05 AM
QuoteOnce I get the 302 in my hands I can make the final decision, sometimes you can bring old lettering back with pen or marker and a steady hand.

I have done that with at least a few dial plates, and if I can do it, anyone can (and better).

Larry
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 11, 2011, 10:24:55 PM
Next thing on my shopping list is cloth phone cord.  ;D

I will need a new handset cord, a cord that goes from the phone to the subset and finally a cord that goes from the subset to the wall.

I want to confirm that I have the correct amount of conductors for each cord that I need.

Handset – 3 conductor (spade ends on both sides)

Phone to subset – 4 conductor (spade ends on both sides)

Subset to wall – 4 conductor (spade ends on one side and modular plug on the other)

Just to reiterate what I'm doing; I'm adding a 5H dial to my D1 and wiring it to my Kellogg subset box using a coil and condenser sourced from a 302.

Am I on the right track here? ???
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Kenny C on October 11, 2011, 10:33:51 PM
You only need two wires for the subset to wall cord.

You'll also need two jumper wires for the inside switch. You can just use some station wire for that. If you want to get proper you can order them here..

http://www.oldphoneworks.com/cord-jumper-cloth-spade-spade-black-6.html (http://www.oldphoneworks.com/cord-jumper-cloth-spade-spade-black-6.html)
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 11, 2011, 11:05:37 PM
Quote from: Kenny C on October 11, 2011, 10:33:51 PM
You only need two wires for the subset to wall cord.

You'll also need two jumper wires for the inside switch. You can just use some station wire for that. If you want to get proper you can order them here..

http://www.oldphoneworks.com/cord-jumper-cloth-spade-spade-black-6.html (http://www.oldphoneworks.com/cord-jumper-cloth-spade-spade-black-6.html)

Thanks for the link to oldphoneworks. I purchased the dial overlay from them on ebay but they have many more goodies on their website.

All the line cords I see with a modular end are four conductor (yellow, green, red, black) Would i just buy the four conductor and not use two of the wires?
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Kenny C on October 11, 2011, 11:16:17 PM
You're welcome.

Yes, use the red and green and tape the black and yellow.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 11, 2011, 11:16:59 PM
Quote from: Kenny C on October 11, 2011, 11:16:17 PM
You're welcome.

Yes, use the red and green and tape the black and yellow.

Thanks Kenny!
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 14, 2011, 12:06:28 PM
I just finished up some shopping for my first phone project. Here's what I ordered:

1 - Cloth covered handset cord: brown 3 conductor with spade ends (white, red & black leads)

1 - Cloth covered subset cord: brown 4 conductor with spade ends (Red, green, yellow & black leads)

1 - Cloth covered line cord: brown 4 conductor with spade ends on one side and modular plug on the other (red, green, yellow & black leads)

2 – Jumper leads with spade ends

2 – Celluloid dial card covers

1 – assorted dial cards

1 – Kellogg water decal (for the subset)

I'm going to stop off at a crafts store over the weekend and see if I can pick up some material to recover the base of my 202.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: DavePEI on October 14, 2011, 03:15:30 PM
Quote from: Marcelo L. on October 14, 2011, 12:06:28 PM
I just finished up some shopping for my first phone project. Here's what I ordered:

1 - Cloth covered handset cord: brown 3 conductor with spayed ends (white, red & black leads)

1 - Cloth covered subset cord: brown 4 conductor with spayed ends (Red, green, yellow & black leads)

1 - Cloth covered line cord: brown 4 conductor with spayed ends on one side and modular plug on the other (red, green, yellow & black leads)


OMG! How cruel! Were you afraid they might reproduce? ;)

Wouldn't be a bad thing if they did. Imagine. Then, you could have a whole range of cords from little baby ones to full grown ones. Did the vet charge much to spay them?

Spade or Spaded. No biggie, but the devil made me do it!

Dave
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 14, 2011, 03:36:48 PM
Quote from: DavePEI on October 14, 2011, 03:15:30 PM
Quote from: Marcelo L. on October 14, 2011, 12:06:28 PM
I just finished up some shopping for my first phone project. Here's what I ordered:

1 - Cloth covered handset cord: brown 3 conductor with spayed ends (white, red & black leads)

1 - Cloth covered subset cord: brown 4 conductor with spayed ends (Red, green, yellow & black leads)

1 - Cloth covered line cord: brown 4 conductor with spayed ends on one side and modular plug on the other (red, green, yellow & black leads)


OMG! How cruel! Were you afraid they might reproduce? ;)

Wouldn't be a bad thing if they did. Imagine. Then, you could have a whole range of cords from little baby ones to full grown ones. Did the vet charge much to spay them?

Spade or Spaded. No biggie, but the devil made me do it!

Dave


I can't blame that one on autocorrect!  ::face palm:

HA! Well at least I know someone is closely ready my posts! ;D
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: DavePEI on October 14, 2011, 04:30:00 PM
Quote from: Marcelo L. on October 14, 2011, 03:36:48 PM
I can't blame that one on autocorrect!  ::face palm:

HA! Well at least I know someone is closely ready my posts! ;D

Sorry. Blame my father for that. He was the Head of the Department of English when I was going to school :-)

Dave
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: AE_Collector on October 14, 2011, 06:02:23 PM
Quote from: DavePEI on October 14, 2011, 04:30:00 PM
He was the Head of the Department of English when I was going to school :-)

Dave

He wasn't just the Head of the English Department, he was Head of the English Department in Brockville Ontario, home of Automatic Electric Canada. You skipped right over some of the most important details.

Terry
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: DavePEI on October 14, 2011, 07:57:05 PM
Quote from: AE_collector on October 14, 2011, 06:02:23 PM
Quote from: DavePEI on October 14, 2011, 04:30:00 PM
He was the Head of the Department of English when I was going to school :-)

Dave

He wasn't just the Head of the English Department, he was Head of the English Department in Brockville Ontario, home of Automatic Electric Canada. You shipped right over some of the most important details.

Terry

That, at least makes it phone related :-) By the way, I just posted a couple of Phillips Electrical Works and GTE/AE photos to the AE50 - Factory or Mod thread...

Dave
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 23, 2011, 09:24:49 PM
OK, so I did some more work on my project today. I believe at this point I am ready to work on the subset box. Please let me know if you see anything askew with my wiring, I used this wiring diagram to wire up the 5H dial and new cords.   

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Moderator Note: There are 41 externally linked images below, linked to Photobucket. This entire post/reply has been printed in and attached at the bottom of this post/reply as a PDF document.

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(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/_BDmount202dial.jpg)

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Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Phonesrfun on October 23, 2011, 10:09:15 PM
Looks great.  The wiring looks like it should.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: bingster on October 23, 2011, 10:30:30 PM
I think I just had a mild heart attack at the sight of the switch stack disassembled and piled up. ;)
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 23, 2011, 11:19:11 PM
Quote from: bingster on October 23, 2011, 10:30:30 PM
I think I just had a mild heart attack at the sight of the switch stack disassembled and piled up. ;)

Yeah, that was an oopsie on my part. I'll get it back together ;D
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 26, 2011, 06:57:53 PM
I wanted to confirm a few things before I proceed. I wanted to make sure that the two pieces indicated below are the only pieces I need from the 302, and that I identified them correctly.

1)  (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/302openview.jpg)

Pretty much the only thing I'm leaving in the subset is the ringer, correct? What's #1 below, is that part of the condenser?

2)  (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/insidebellbox.jpg)
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: rdelius on October 26, 2011, 07:23:13 PM
In that old Kellogg magneto box, #1 is the condenser (capcator) and #2 is the induction coil
Robby
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: bingster on October 26, 2011, 08:48:43 PM
And from the first photo, yes, the coil and condenser are what you need.  They're easily removed from the 302, and can be easily mounted inside the old box.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on October 26, 2011, 11:20:50 PM
Quote from: bingster on October 26, 2011, 08:48:43 PM
And from the first photo, yes, the coil and condenser are what you need.  They're easily removed from the 302, and can be easily mounted inside the old box.

Thanks, Bingster!

Here's the coil and condenser out of the 302. I have to say, this 302 was nasty inside! It must have spent most of its life in a smoker's kitchen because it smelt like an ashtray and was heavily caked in grease. I drilled out the rivets for the coil and condenser brackets so that I can reuse them in the subset. I also took some time to clean and degrease the all the pieces. 

1)  (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/P1020468.jpg)

2)  (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/P1020469.jpg)

3)  (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/P1020470.jpg)
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 02, 2011, 11:26:10 PM
Hello friends, I'm still plugging away on my project and am just about ready to have this thing all put together; I just need a little bit more guidance.

Here's the subset box after refinishing. I stripped it down to the bare wood, sanded it, and gave it two coats of stain followed by two coats of polyurethane. Now it's time for reassembly.   

1)  (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/P1020518.jpg)

I have a few questions on wiring. I have the subset cord coming from the phone with four leads; red, green, black and yellow. I also have the line cord that would go from the subset to the wall. The line cord has the same colors as the subset cords.

2)  (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/COIL.jpg)
The coil has the following terminals:

GN
R
Y L2
L1
C

3)  (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/P1020458.jpg)
The condenser has four wires:

Black
Yellow
Red
White (This appears to be the ground and I would assume it would connect to GN on the coil)

4)  (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/P1020483.jpg)

The ringer has what appear to be a white and black wire.

How does this all go together?
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 03, 2011, 03:24:56 PM
I found these two wiring diagrams on the site but they don't exactly look like what i have.

1)  (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/684-101.jpg)

2)  (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/684-146.jpg)

I would really appreciate any guidance.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 03, 2011, 04:34:26 PM
Quote from: wds on October 09, 2011, 02:14:41 PM
No - the 101A induction coil and 195A condenser is the correct network for that phone.   Post a picture of the inside of the bottom of the phone, showing the wiring and contacts, and we'll put a wiring diagram together for you.  Also, are you going to put a dial in that phone?  If so, that will affect the wiring.  

I'm ready for the help with that wiring diagram now.  ;D
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: bingster on November 03, 2011, 09:22:53 PM
The first of the two diagrams is the one you need.  You don't have the little terminal board with the "K" and "BK" terminals on it, because your subset is so much older than the 634/684.  However, those two terminals are just tie points for a pair of wires, and you can use any of the several little screw terminals along the outer sides of your subset for that.  Other than that, everything should match up exactly (since you've installed 634/685 components in your box). 

Your cord that goes from the subset to the wall only needs two of the conductors, so use the red and green conductors for the hookup (just like in the diagram) and disregard the other two colors, as they're not necessary.  You can cover their ends in tape to keep them from contacting anything electrical if you like.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 03, 2011, 09:25:54 PM
Quote from: bingster on November 03, 2011, 09:22:53 PM
The first of the two diagrams is the one you need.  You don't have the little terminal board with the "K" and "BK" terminals on it, because your subset is so much older than the 634/684.  However, those two terminals are just tie points for a pair of wires, and you can use any of the several little screw terminals along the outer sides of your subset for that.  Other than that, everything should match up exactly (since you've installed 634/685 components in your box). 

Your cord that goes from the subset to the wall only needs two of the conductors, so use the red and green conductors for the hookup (just like in the diagram) and disregard the other two colors, as they're not necessary.  You can cover their ends in tape to keep them from contacting anything electrical if you like.

Bingster, Thanks for the help, now I can get this puppy all wired up!  ;D
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 04, 2011, 11:23:00 PM
My telephone project is finally complete! I'm very happy to report that everything works as it should and I was even pleasantly surprised to find out that I am able to make outbound calls (without the use of a pulse to tone converter) with my Vonage VOIP phone service. Many thanks to this community for your support and guidance. 

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Moderator Note: There are 45 externally linked images below, linked to Photobucket. This entire post/reply has been printed in and attached at the bottom of this post/reply as a PDF document.

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Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: GG on November 05, 2011, 06:43:02 AM


Holy cow, Marcelo!, you do excellent work there!

What's this "new member" stuff, that looks like you've been doing this all your life. 

Seriously.  You could offer to do those ringer boxes for other folks and they'd (I would anyway) pay you for the work. 
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: wds on November 05, 2011, 08:44:50 AM
Very nice!  And you have it mounted where it belongs - front and center on the wall where everyone can see it.  (and hear it)
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: bingster on November 05, 2011, 08:57:24 PM
You should be proud of that setup, Marcelo.  Very nicely done!
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 05, 2011, 10:12:00 PM
Quote from: bingster on November 05, 2011, 08:57:24 PM
You should be proud of that setup, Marcelo.  Very nicely done!

Thank you. I am very proud of this, indeed! This forum and it's members have been very helpful and now I look forward to the next project.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 05, 2011, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: wds on November 05, 2011, 08:44:50 AM
Very nice!  And you have it mounted where it belongs - front and center on the wall where everyone can see it.  (and hear it)

Thank you! I get a real kick out of it whenever someone calls and I hear those bells ring. It's funny; I've been so accustomed to the sound of modern ringers that when I hear this one, I forget for a second that it's actually a phone ringing. 
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 05, 2011, 10:24:41 PM
Quote from: GG on November 05, 2011, 06:43:02 AM


Holy cow, Marcelo!, you do excellent work there!

What's this "new member" stuff, that looks like you've been doing this all your life. 

Seriously.  You could offer to do those ringer boxes for other folks and they'd (I would anyway) pay you for the work. 

Thanks, GG! It wouldn't have even happened if it weren't for the nice folks in this community and Mr. Ron Powell. I'm a member of the AFCA (Antique Fan Collectors Association) and it was Mr. Powell who recommend I join this forum. 

   
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: GG on November 07, 2011, 03:22:38 AM


Marcelo, after a while you'll get to where you can recognize different makes & model numbers by the differences in the sound of the ring.   That may have the side-effect of spoiling recent movies that use the wrong sound effects, e.g. "that's a 302, and they dubbed in a 500 ring, fail!"

But you'll know you've been spending too much time at this, when you can tell the difference between the sound of an AE 24 dial, AE 36 dial (or was that 24A36?), and Kellogg 15-G dial.  (For an added bonus, throw in the Japanese and French versions!  Hmm, do we have the ability to post audio tracks here?)
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 07, 2011, 09:27:56 AM
Quote from: GG on November 07, 2011, 03:22:38 AM


Marcelo, after a while you'll get to where you can recognize different makes & model numbers by the differences in the sound of the ring.   That may have the side-effect of spoiling recent movies that use the wrong sound effects, e.g. "that's a 302, and they dubbed in a 500 ring, fail!"

But you'll know you've been spending too much time at this, when you can tell the difference between the sound of an AE 24 dial, AE 36 dial (or was that 24A36?), and Kellogg 15-G dial.  (For an added bonus, throw in the Japanese and French versions!  Hmm, do we have the ability to post audio tracks here?)

GG, I know what you mean. It's kind of like the way I can tell the difference between a big block and a small block Chevy solely by the sound of the exhaust.  

I made a short video clip of the ringing sound, but I'm afraid the sound quality of my digital camera isn't the greatest. I'll see if I can upload it to youtube tonight and post the link here for you to hear.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: AE_Collector on November 07, 2011, 07:27:43 PM
Small Block...Big Block....who cares. I miss the sound of a Chevy V8 ....period. Last one I owned was a 350 4 bbl (Q-Jet) in my 1974 Vega Woodie Wagon. Put it in myself. It turned a few heads!

Terry
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on November 07, 2011, 08:02:59 PM
Here's a link to the youtube video of the phone ringing. Sorry for the poor sound quality.

http://youtu.be/qELBVNC96iw (http://youtu.be/qELBVNC96iw)
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here!
Post by: Marcelo L. on December 04, 2011, 04:53:07 PM
Here's a clip with much better sound quality than the previous version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PRWIKjnrM4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PRWIKjnrM4)
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here! - Marcelo L.
Post by: Marcelo L. on March 01, 2013, 01:03:07 AM
Hello,

I really like the look of the E-1 handset and was thinking of replacing my F-1 handset with one.

Should I expect a change in sound quality? If so, can I swap the earpiece and receiver over to the E-1 handset?

I've been using this phone daily now for over a year and I much prefer the sound quality over any modern phone I've owned.   
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here! - Marcelo L.
Post by: poplar1 on March 01, 2013, 11:59:03 AM
The E-1 handsets malnufactured or reissued starting in 1935 had a 625A transmitter with  the same F-1 transmitter capsule as found in the F-1 handsets. You should get one of the later type. The earlier 395B "bullet" transmitters usually don't work too well.

The 557B receivers in an E-1 were never modernized. An HA1 receiver from an F-1 handset will not fit in an E-1. Still, the 557B receiver works well enough for daily use so long as the diaphragm is not bent.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here! - Marcelo L.
Post by: poplar1 on March 01, 2013, 12:54:11 PM
see photos: 395B transmitter first two pictures; 625A transmitters third photo

For 625A see also  C35.101-i2 in TCI library (not yet downloaded)
Reply #52 in http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=27.90
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here! - Marcelo L.
Post by: Marcelo L. on March 01, 2013, 06:03:48 PM
Quote from: poplar1 on March 01, 2013, 11:59:03 AM
The E-1 handsets malnufactured or reissued starting in 1935 had a 625A transmitter with  the same F-1 transmitter capsule as found in the F-1 handsets. You should get one of the later type. The earlier 395B "bullet" transmitters usually don't work too well.

The 557B receivers in an E-1 were never modernized. An HA1 receiver from an F-1 handset will not fit in an E-1. Still, the 557B receiver works well enough for daily use so long as the diaphragm is not bent.

If I use a spare transmitter out of one of my F-1 handsets, can I put it in my new E-1 handset?

Here's the phone I bought last night. I don't suppose we can tell it's age by the pictures, cane we? I'll take the E-1 handset off of this one and replace it with a spare F-1 handset I have.

1)  (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/newphone_zpsbc93c643.jpg)

2)  (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/newphone2_zps8c3f3af5.jpg)
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here! - Marcelo L.
Post by: poplar1 on March 02, 2013, 05:40:17 PM
It probably already has an F-1 transmitter and 625A transmitter case. If it is the older 395B transmitter, then the F-1 transmitter won't fit.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here! - Marcelo L.
Post by: HarrySmith on March 02, 2013, 10:34:08 PM
Looks like a date under the red wire in the second picture, year appears to be 36.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here! - Marcelo L.
Post by: Marcelo L. on March 09, 2013, 02:36:24 PM
Here's the E1 handset installed. Love the look of it over the D1. 

1)  (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/IMG_7424_zps67b81825.jpg)
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here! - Marcelo L.
Post by: poplar1 on March 09, 2013, 04:08:53 PM
Does the handset have a 625A transmitter or 395B?
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here! - Marcelo L.
Post by: Marcelo L. on March 10, 2013, 03:15:26 AM
Quote from: poplar1 on March 09, 2013, 04:08:53 PM
Does the handset have a 625A transmitter or 395B?

You were right, it has the newer 625A transmitter. I don't notice a change in sound quality but my girlfriend seems to think that I sound a bit farther away when I call her.
Title: Re: Hello, New Member Here! - Marcelo L.
Post by: Marcelo L. on March 10, 2013, 07:08:07 PM
Both my phones cleaned up.

1)  (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/marcelo82ny/Western%20Electric%20Phone/IMG_7444_zpsc362a2dc.jpg)