Need a copy of AE circuit diagram D-53688 for SN-4020 AE40 & wiring inquiry

[RotoTech99]

Dear Forum:

I am looking for a good readable copy of AE circuit label D-53688, Issue 7 that was issued for the AE40's using a single talk condenser on the base and a ring condenser mounted on the upper housing, please.

It is for a  SN-4020 AO labelled Type 40.

There is one shown in the topic my first AE40, Page 2;  but it is somewhat rough and hard to read.

I have an AE 40 marked SN 4020 A8 that corresponds with this diagram, but has a 30 cycle frequency ringer.

If someone has a good readable copy please, I would appreciate a copy.

BTW: I have also noticed my ringer's wires are both on the L2 terminal, and terminals 4 and 5 have no screw. The ring condenser is connected as follows: 1 lead is at L1, the other is soldered to the last contact of the rear set of hookswitch springs

Thank you,
RotoTech99

[AE_Collector]

Doing a search of "my first ae40" as well as "my first ae 40" locates at least 4 separate topics matching that criteria but of those that have a second page of posts none have a picture or a link to a circuit diagram and ditto for page one of all of the topics.

We will have to wait for more information from you in order to check the diagram that you mentioned.

Generally I don't suspect that they made anywhere near as many different diagrams as potential slightly different telephone models. Thus the spaces on the diagrams to stamp in the exact model number and tge ringer frequency of the exact phone that the diagram is located in.

Terry

[RotoTech99]

Dear AE Collector

I have attached a copy of the schematic to this reply... It is the one I need the good copy of.  It is #D-53688, Issue 6

I have a "poor at best" copy of the D-53688, Issue 7 diagram.

I found it on this site, but can't recall where precisely.

Any assistance you can provide, please is appreciated

Thank you,
RotoTech99

[NorthernElectric]

I found the post you were referring to here.  When you reference another post on the forum, it's a big help to provide a link.  Anyway, the image you copied is only the thumbnail.  It was posted as a higher resolution image (1024x768).  I downloaded it and brightened it up some to make it more readable.  Be sure to click on the image to see it full size.

[RotoTech99]

Dear Northern Electric:

Thank you, is there a way to remove some of that extra discoloration in the bottom area of that?

While I am thinking of it, part of my reason for asking is I have a AE40 with 30 cycle ringer that has separate transmission and ringing condensers I am looking for some clarification on the wiring... Can you help with this, please?

To begin, the 30 cycle ringer has both ringer leads on (L-2), and the housing mounted ring condenser is wired to (L-1), and  the last contact of the hookswitch.

Terminals (4) and (5) are empty; having no screw or a lead from either the hook or induction coil there.

I have seen a variation where one condenser lead is placed at (5), but do not know if that would be correct for straight-line ringing.

It rings as configured, but I would like to put a straight line ringer in it, and would like to find out how a straight-line ringer would connect in this early version of AE40.

I've attached photos from a AE40 I seen that has the separate condensers, and a straight line ringer, nut I can't tell where the ringer leads are going.

Any assistance you might provide will be welcomed.\

Thank you,
RotoTech99

[unbeldi]

The wiring is independent of whether it has a frequency-selective ringer installed or not.  As the diagram shows the connections are always the same.  Follow the wires, not necessarily the posts, as some connections may not have terminal screws.

[RotoTech99]

Dear Unbeldi:

I must respectfully disagree with you in this case....

I have noted specifically  how the wiring is in my AE 40, and what it is doing.

As it is already ringing a 30 cycle ringer as I noted with the connections as I mentioned, I meed to know if replacing that with a straight line ringer wired the same will allow the straight-line ringer to ring and see photos of the same configuration set as mine with a straight line ringer, showing where the ringer leads are connected in the upper housing, please.

Here again, is PRECISELY how my AE40 is wired:

1. Both ringer leads are connected to (L-2) the RINGING CONDENSER is connected as follows: One lead is soldered to the last hookswitch contact, the other is connected at (L-1).

2. The transmission and ringing condensers are SEPARATE, the transmission one being on the base. and the RINGING CONDENSER on the housing.

I have also attached photos from a AE40 that has the same condenser configuration, except that it has the straight-line ringer like what I would like to put in mine.
I need to see a photo of the same type set, showing where the straight-line ringer wires goes, please; in the upper housing.

[unbeldi]

The principle of operating a straight-line ringer versus a frequency ringer is identical, and so is the circuit diagram.  You can use the same diagram.  Only the component values are different.

This also applies when using the 2in1 condenser, only the wires are routed differently for obvious reasons, since the two parts are in different locations.

The only difference is when installing the set for grounded ringing, as in this case the third mounting cord conductor is used, so the ringer lead is moved from L2 to the ground lead.

The diagram here, as well as the other diagrams for the Type 40 set shown here are identical as far as the connections are concerned.

I think at some time AE may have changed the physical construction of the induction coils slightly, so the components do have (unimportant) variations.

[unbeldi]

1. Both ringer leads are connected to (L-2) the RINGING CONDENSER is connected as follows: One lead is soldered to the last hookswitch contact, the other is connected at (L-1).

This would produce a non-working ringer, it is what someone would to do silence the ringer.  Move one of the ringer leads on L-2 to terminal 5 and it works.

The older diagrams don't show the terminal no. 5  (not the IC terminal 5) connected.   It may be that the wire from the hook switch is directly brought to the ringer, but that doesn't change the circuit.  I can't remember now which ringers had screw terminals and which had solder connections only.
I think the older ones had screws?

[RotoTech99]

Dear Unbeldi:

Here is a photo of my AE40's internal setup with the items I described marked to better explain what I need to see in a identical set, except that the ringer would be be a straight-line, instead of 30 cycle.

So the set I need a photo of will be IDENTICAL to mine in having separate condensers, except it will have a straight line ringer; and I need to SEE where its ringer leads are connected at.

Hopefully,these photos will CLARIFY what I am asking for to you, an d help get me what I need.

It is the low impedance ones I have seen with screw terminals.

Note that the (4) and (5) terminals have no screw, or lead from the condensers, Ind. Coil or hook on EITHER ONE.

Thanks,
RotoTech99

[unbeldi]

So the set that you are showing agrees with the diagram that your have from earlier in this topic.
In the diagram, the third hook switch wire goes directly to the ringer. In later sets it was terminated on the solder lug of post 5 and the ringer wire was routed there.  Post 5 served as a wire joint.
Take the second ringer wire off L2 and connect it to the wire that comes from the Monoswitch.  Where is the wire going from the switch that connects to the ringer normally?  In the diagram it is marked WH (white).  Whatever it is, it needs to connect to the second ringer wires.  If necessary, find a screw for those posts.
You have the diagram you asked for which tells you exactly that.
This is the reason why model numbers would be hard to "decode" from many sets, because they have been modified a few times.  Such modifications could easily entail replacing a wire and rerouting it.

[unbeldi]

Looking at your inside picture it just occurs to me that the hookswitch is wired incorrectly.  The three-contact switch (left-handside) should be switching the ringer capacitor (middle contact), while the right switch with two contacts should go to the dial and L1.

[poplar1]

If the capacitor in the upper housing is the right (or close to the correct) value, then, if you have the older style ringer with the screw terminals, you would simply remove the 30~ ringer, install the S.L. ringer, and reconnect the two spade-tipped ringer wires (that were on the old ringer) to the terminals on the ringer. (The green wire with spade tips on both ends would connect to the ringer on one end and to L2 on the other. The spade tip end of the white wire would connect to the other ringer terminal. The soldered end of the white wire connects to the middle contact of the hookswitch. The capacitor connects (brown) to L1 and (green) to the outer hookswitch contact. Notice that only when the phone is on the hook, there is a complete path from L1, through the ringer capacitor, through the hookswitch (3-contact spring side), through the (white) ringer, then (green ringer)  to L2 (or to G instead of L2 for divided ringing on party lines).

The reason for adding the "5" terminal was that the new-style smaller ringers had the leads soldered directly to the ringer coils. So you needed a terminal to connect or disconnect the ringer. Likewise, adding the "4" terminal made it easier to change the ringer capacitor to match the ringer if you were changing frequencies or to/from Straight Line to harmonic (frequency) ringer.

Notice the other diagram from the same post (picture 18), showing the "4" and "5" terminals with spade tip wires, but no screw terminals on the ringer.

I agree with unbeldi: If you have both ringer wires connected to the same terminal, you are shorting out the ringer, and it won't ring.

The photo below is the "Picture 018" shown in the topic you cited.

[RotoTech99]

I am going to try to get a better look at where my ring condenser is hooked up, but I am pretty sure one lead is on (L-1), and look at the other terminals again.. I am inclined to agree to an extent with you.

I'll let you know what i find out.

Thanks

[RotoTech99]

OK, here is what I have to update on my post....

The green wire from the 1 mF Condenser is connected to the #2 (middle contact) of the set of 3 hook contacts on the left side of my photo (First set of hook contacts), and the other Condenser lead is at L1 with the green line cord lead.

My earlier thought about there being a connection at the last contact on the second set of hook contacts from either the condenser or ringer was in error..

So would connecting 1 ringer lead at L1 with the red line cord lead and Condenser lead at (L-1), and leaving the other ringer lead at (L-2) with the green line cord lead be OK?

To summarize what I know now is as follows:

1. First condenser lead (green?) Is at middle contact of the hook contacts in left of my photo.
    (First set of hook contacts)
2. Second condenser lead is at (L-1) with red line cord lead.
3. Green line cord lead is at (L-2) with both ringer leads currently.
    (one ringer lead will be moved from there.)
QUESTION: Will moving one ringer lead to (L-1) with the red line cord and the second Condenser lead at (L-1) be OK?

Please let me know, and Thank you for your advice.

RotoTech99