What is a 202 worth

[stub]

bingster, What is the correct dial for this phone?   stub

[Kenny C]

I dont know look at the cord 100 will take about all of my money not counting the cord

[LarryInMichigan]

What kind of base is that?  It looks round like a B1, but the dial is sunken into the base, like a D1, and the cradle looks like a D1 cradle.  I have a dial-less B1, and the cradle looks different.  Also, any dial mounted on my base would be mounted on the outside of the base.

Regarding the subset, it does not belong with the phone, but it could probably be sold on ebay for $30 or so.

Are there any major cracks of chips in the handset?  Are the transmitter and receiver elements there?

Larry

[bingster]

The first photo of the phone makes the base look odd because it's taken head on.  If you look at the second photo, looking down on the phone, you can see it's an oval D1. 

Stub, depending on the age of the phone, it should have a Western Electric 4H or 5H dial. 

[foots]

  That's not a bad phone. I paid something like $65 or $70 for mine, somewhat of a deal seeing what they normally go for. Mine has an F-1 handset and was refurbed in 1951. I know it doesn't look too good in the pictures but this thing cleaned up really well, the handset looks new. Here's my picture and one from the ebay listing.

[Doug Rose]

bingster, What is the correct dial for this phone?   stub

Stub...it should be a 4H or a 5H but you will see 6As from the late 50 refurbs by WE. You should never see an AE dial in an WE phone.....Doug

[rp2813]

From the dates provided, I'd say the E1 handset has been retrofitted with F1 components.  I don't know if they had a way to put an HA1 receiver element in an E1 handset (if they did, I want to do that to mine) but 1937 seems way late for the receiver element to be the earlier type.

I'd try to get them down from $100 by pointing out the dial isn't Western Electric and the subset isn't even close to what would be used with a D1/202 type phone.

$75 for the whole package wouldn't be a bad deal, but then you'd need to budget for the correct dial, new handset (and mounting?) cord(s) and the correct subset, or the components you can place into the base and eliminate the need for the subset.  However, if you want the phone to ring, you'll need a subset.

[benhutcherson]

I realize I'm late to this thread, but I've been out of town for the past week and wanted to comment on one statement

What I meant is that a 202 wouldn't have come with a wooden subset of any type.

I have to disagree with this. During the war, WE did everything they could to put out working phones. I have an oak subset which is marked 637A, and is electrically equivalent to a 634A.

You can tell where the box once held a magneto and had a crank, but these are long gone and replaced with a 101A coil and capacitor.

The subset pictured here is, of course, incorrect, although an oak subset can certainly be legitimate.

[bingster]

There would have been exceptions for emergency situations like wartime shortages, of course, when Bell cobbled together all manner of strange sets.  Under normal circumstances, though, a 202 would have been installed with a 634/684, rather than anything wooden.

[Doug Rose]

There were definitely wood ringer boxes for Both WE and AE that were not magneto ringers. In the 30s American Electric, who later turned into Automatic Electric had this beauty with there 1A. Also the WE ringer pictured with dates on the side was from the 20s....Doug

[bingster]

There were definitely wood ringer boxes for Both WE and AE that were not magneto ringers.

Absolutely, but not anti-sidetone for 202 service.  (Except those that may have been cobbled together by Bell during the war, as Ben mentioned.)

[bingster]

1937 seems way late for the receiver element to be the earlier type.

I have an older type marked II37, but that's far and away my newest one. I would imagine they made them until the F handset became readily available, when they would have been used to replace any problematic E handsets, but that's just a guess.

[rp2813]

Bingster, that makes sense.  If the F1 was rolled out to the public in 1937 along with the 302's, it would have been a while until they came up with the retrofit package for the E1's.

My earliest F1 element is a transmitter from 5/36.  I should probably start a new thread for this, but is there a good timeline for when the F1 deployment started?  Were they already being used to replace E1's before the 302's were launched?

[Phonesrfun]

If I can remember, I can check two books when I get home from work tonight regarding the rollout of the F1 transmitter, and its relationship to the E1 and F1 handsets.

The two books I am talking about are Old Time Telephones by Ralph Meyer, and Desksets of the Bell System by Larry Wolf (sp?)

These are both excellent reference soruces for dates and timelines, with Larry Wolf's being a better source for dates, and Ralph Meyer's being a better source for the technical aspects, but they have considerable overlap in their scope of information.

[Phonesrfun]

F1 transmitters and F1 handsets:

This is a combination from Ralph Meyers and Larry Wolff on the F1's

On page 22 of Old Time Telephones (Ralph Meyers) it says "This Transmitter [F1] was backfitted to the E1 handset in 1934."

Note:  This would be using the F1 transmitter and an adapter assembly that resembled the old 395B barrier-button transmitter.  The assembly of the adapter and the F1 transmitter was collectively known as a 625A. transmitter

Larry Wolff, in Desk Telephones of the Bell System says on page 50 - "Transmitters made a dramatic evolution circa 1935 when the one piece 395B barrier-button transmitter was replaced by an alloy socket that held an F1 transmitter element.....The 625A transmitter had better sound quality and, if defective, could be replaced for far less cost."

As far as the F handset, Larry Wolff says on page 53 "After the E1B handset with the 625A transmitter, evolved the F1 handset.  This handset was developed for the 300 sets [I.E. the 302] introduced in 1937."

So, it looks like there was about three or so years of overlap between the F1 transmitter and the F1 handset.  Ralph Meyers says the F1 transmitter came on the scene in 1934, and Larry Wolff says "circa" 1935.  That is pretty close.  Larry Wolff says the F1 handset came out in 1937 to be a part of the 300 family of desk sets.  Some of the early 302's had E1B handsets, presumably with the 625A F1 based transmitter.