ringing generator

[jarwulf]

Hi, I'm looking for something to convert a 3.3V or 5V DC to a ringing signal with as small a current draw as possible. I'd like it to be suitable for integrating into a small portable electronics project that runs off batteries The closest I could find is

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cambridge-Labs-Black-Magic-Telephone-Ring-Ringing-Generator-12vdc-/291035855345?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c316b9f1.

Unfortunately the input is too high, documentation is sparse, and it is rather expensive. Does anyone know of any alternatives?

[unbeldi]

Hi, I'm looking for something to convert a 3.3V or 5V DC to a ringing signal with as small a current draw as possible. I'd like it to be suitable for integrating into a small portable electronics project that runs off batteries The closest I could find is

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cambridge-Labs-Black-Magic-Telephone-Ring-Ringing-Generator-12vdc-/291035855345?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c316b9f1.

Unfortunately the input is too high, documentation is sparse, and it is rather expensive. Does anyone know of any alternatives?

Sounds like you're driving it off a uC.  Not enough current, at least a very tall task. You might want to use this Cambridge chip or a PowerDSine, which you might sometimes find for $5-$10, with a 23A-type 12V battery, about a dollar a piece and holders are cheap too.   Search this forum, there have been posts about the PowerDSine chips.

The PowerDSine chips, and I suspect the Cambridge chips are similar, draw at least 50mA at 12V, when idle, going to perhaps 70mA or more, IIRC, with a ringing load.

There was also a 5V version of the PowerDSine chip, but I have not seen them sold in a very long time, years, I believe.

If you can find a DC-DC converter from 5V to perhaps 30V--perhaps this one, http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm1577.pdf--you could implement a polarity inverter by driving a relay or solid state switch and generating essentially a square wave. Some phones may ring with only 30V, but not many antique phones. But this also takes a bit of current to do.

[TelePlay]

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4748.0


The D-Sine is available in quantities of 2 for $9.90 plus $3.90 shipping. That's $7 each and a good deal and they work well with a 12 VDC battery.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121058890727

It might be you could use the 5th (yellow inhibit wire) to trigger the ring generator, which would be powered by a 12 VDC  battery or other source, with your  5 VDC source. I've never used that feature of the DSine.

[jarwulf]

Do you know how big them things are? THey look suitable except for the input. A 5 or 3.3 V would be preferable since space is limited but I guess I might have to spring for a dodgy voltage booster.

[unbeldi]

Do you know how big them things are? THey look suitable except for the input. A 5 or 3.3 V would be preferable since space is limited but I guess I might have to spring for a dodgy voltage booster.

They are almost exactly 1.5" on the side, square. quite compact. I bought a batch of 10 or so some time ago and have used them for several projects. I would say that it is probably next to impossible to find the 5 V versions anymore, the company was bought out years ago and the product line has been stopped, sometimes the 12V and 24V versions do emerge on eBay.

The picture is of another packaging type of these, same product as the other picture in this thread.

[jarwulf]

I'm going to be using this voltage booster to drive the bell through the ring generator. It draws 100 mA. So  the ringer generator  draws 70mA but might go even higher? Does anyone know the range is past 100mA?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/281043218586?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

[unbeldi]

I'm going to be using this voltage booster to drive the bell through the ring generator. It draws 100 mA. So  the ringer generator  draws 70mA but might go even higher? Does anyone know the range is past 100mA?

Using a #23A 12V battery, I have actually measured the idle draw of 50-55mA, and 75mA when ringing a single standard WE-500 with a 425B network. This is for the units I pictured, PCR-SIN03V12F20-C
I don't seem to have measured it when the output inhibit function is enabled. I suspect it shuts down some parts of the chip saving some power. The yellow lead is the inhibit, useful for cadencing too, I suppose.

From my using it in a cordless PBX, I recall that it drew at least 500mA @ 12V when ringing about 9 or 10 telephones simultaneously, no cadence, constant ringing.

[jarwulf]

I'm going to be using this voltage booster to drive the bell through the ring generator. It draws 100 mA. So  the ringer generator  draws 70mA but might go even higher? Does anyone know the range is past 100mA?

Using a #23A 12V battery, I have actually measured the idle draw of 50-55mA, and 75mA when ringing a single standard WE-500 with a 425B network. This is for the units I pictured, PCR-SIN03V12F20-C
I don't seem to have measured it when the output inhibit function is enabled. I suspect it shuts down some parts of the chip saving some power. The yellow lead is the inhibit, useful for cadencing too, I suppose.

From my using it in a cordless PBX, I recall that it drew at least 500mA @ 12V when ringing about 9 or 10 telephones simultaneously, no cadence, constant ringing.

Do you know the function of each of the wires? The yellow wire is the interrupt but what about the other 4? The seller doesn't seem to have documentation.

[TelePlay]

See this diagram.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4748.msg101254#msg101254

[DavePEI]

Do you know the function of each of the wires? The yellow wire is the interrupt but what about the other 4? The seller doesn't seem to have documentation.

See: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4748.0

A discussion on using these which contains wiring, etc.

Dave

[unbeldi]

A nice feature of the device is that the output is free floating, and so it can be tied to talk battery in any way to achieve grounded t/r or bridged ringing.

[jarwulf]

thanks for the help so far

The P1A ringer itself has four wires black red and 2 grays. They connect to a series of resistors with the black and red on the outside of the series with teh grays in between the resistors. From what I read the two grays go out to connect to a capacitor. Do I have have to worry about these two wires or can I just use the black and red when connecting up the bell? I also want to make sure the ringer does not get excessively high current, as far below 500mA as possible. The stuff I'm connecting might get damaged if too much juice is taken from it.

[unbeldi]

thanks for the help so far

The P1A ringer itself has four wires black red and 2 grays. They connect to a series of resistors with the black and red on the outside of the series with teh grays in between the resistors. From what I read the two grays go out to connect to a capacitor. Do I have have to worry about these two wires or can I just use the black and red when connecting up the bell? I also want to make sure the ringer does not get excessively high current, as far below 500mA as possible. The stuff I'm connecting might get damaged if too much juice is taken from it.

500mA?  I doubt it.  What is your ringing voltage?  Are you using the PowerDsine ringing generator?  If so, the voltage is say 80VAC, impedance is going to be around 7000 ohms (about 1 REN), so your ringing current should be a little over 0.01 A.   If you are connecting the ringer directly to the ring generator and not via a telephone loop with tip/ring talk battery, then you don't need the capacitor and can just short the two inner gray wires directly.
What stuff are you connecting where?

[G-Man]

For your purposes you only need to concern yourself with the red and black leads.

The slate and the slate-red leads (not gray) are taps off of the ringer's windings (not resistors) and are unused so do not connect them to anything; just tape and store them.

Here is a schematic for the ringer.

[poplar1]

thanks for the help so far

The P1A ringer itself has four wires black red and 2 grays. They connect to a series of resistors with the black and red on the outside of the series with teh grays in between the resistors. From what I read the two grays go out to connect to a capacitor. Do I have have to worry about these two wires or can I just use the black and red when connecting up the bell? I also want to make sure the ringer does not get excessively high current, as far below 500mA as possible. The stuff I'm connecting might get damaged if too much juice is taken from it.

500mA?  I doubt it.  What is your ringing voltage?  Are you using the PowerDsine ringing generator?  If so, the voltage is say 80VAC, impedance is going to be around 7000 ohms (about 1 REN), so your ringing current should be a little over 0.01 A.   If you are connecting the ringer directly to the ring generator and not via a telephone loop with tip/ring talk battery, then you don't need the capacitor and can just short the two inner gray wires directly.
What stuff are you connecting where?

The "two grays" or "two inner gray wires" are actually "slate" (S) and "slate-red" (S-R). Shorting them together would reduce the resistance from 5200 Ohms to 3550--unbeldi, is that what you intended to do? (The above diagram omits the value between R (red) and S-R, which is approx. 2550 ohms.)

S and S-R seem to be a confusing choice of colors since except for Tip Party ID on 2MR or 2MB lines, they are connected to A and K on C4A ringers (500 sets, etc.)  but are insulated and stored on M1A (Princess), N1A (1554) and P1A ringers (Trimline, decorator sets, 2554s).