Soft Plastic phones

[Charles]

I have been looking online at some 50s era WE 500s.  I assume that some of these maybe soft plastic. I have several questions about soft plastic.

1) Does it scratch easier?
2) can you still polish it using novus type products?
3) do they discolor worse than ABS?

Any other disadvantages?

Thanks

[unbeldi]

All 500 sets used cellulose acetate butyrate, commonly abbreviated CAB, until 1959, when the switch was made to ABS.  Western Electric got their plastics from Eastman Kodak, which called it Tenite Butyrate.  The Western Electric engineers also called it Tenite 2. That may have indeed been a name also used by Eastman, as I have found trademark notices for Tenite I, II, and III (IIRC). They don't use those numbered names anymore today, AFAIK.

Soft isn't a term I would use to describe it, and I have no idea who originated this term.

Both CAB and ABS are amorphous polymers with a range of softening and melting temperatures, this makes them both easy to mold. They are usually classified as low strength materials and are both prone to cracking.  CAB is in general somewhat more brittle than ABS, and ABS has higher impact strength, which likely was a requirement for the housings of the Princess telephone—introduced also in 1959! ABS is less prone to staining, which apparently was a major concern for telephones and we have reports that Bell Labs conducted detailed studies in this area.

In terms of care, there is very little difference between Tenite and ABS. The same polishes can be used.  In general, you might find that  ABS polishes to a higher gloss more easily, and more long-lasting.  Common solvents, such as acetone, dissolve both materials well; ABS perhaps more readily than CAB. I have used acetone to weld cracks in both materials.

Discoloration is highly depended on the environment and exposure.  It's major origin is the addition of flame-retardants to plastic. The majority of such compounds were based on bromides, which over time release minute amounts of elemental bromine, a very dark red-brown liquid, but produces yellow to brown shades in minute concentrations.  I would say CAB and ABS are pretty much equally susceptible to yellowing for the pastel colors. But the dark colors can also suffer visibly.

[WEBellSystemChristian]

I have found that Tenite is never affected by fading with sunlight exposure, regardless of color, but is very affected and stains when exposed to Nicotine. ABS is very affected by fading with sunlight exposure, but 90% of any Nicotine doesn't stain, and can be polished off. I would actually say that Tenite fades better than ABS, because it only has one typical source of fading. ABS has two. Because any discoloration in Tenite is probably derived from Nicotine, discolored plastic can simply be bleached in a tub. Faded ABS needs to be left in Peroxide cream in either the sun or under a UV light (Peroxide only works for lighter-colored plastic, Bleach works on all colors for Tenite).

Tenite does have a certain 'warmth' to it, which can be distinguished after some experience. One downside to Tenite is that it does not polish out very easily (as Unbeldi said) but I regularly use Denatured Alcohol to remove any haziness or light scratches before I use Automotive Compound (my alternative to Novus) to give a mirror-like finish. ABS isn't affected by denatured alcohol, so I have to wetsand scratches away.

[jsowers]

I've got several Tenite phones that won't respond to bleaching and they are all non-pastel colors like red and dark blue. I haven't tried Peroxide on them since they're dark colors. The red one had a sticker on it all its life and I can see the original color and it's several shades lighter, even after two bleach baths. I just didn't want anyone getting the impression that bleach fixes all fading problems on Tenite. Light colored Tenite actually fades to a lighter hue sometimes, due to UV exposure. Pink is notorious for that. So as for what Christian said about it never fading due to sunight--that's not been my experience at all. Sun can do damage, but not nearly as bad on Tenite as it is with ABS. It depends on what color it is.

I use automotive rubbing compound on Tenite to get off the imbedded dirt and paint spots and then clean off the grit and haze with just plain water on a damp paper towel and let it dry. That's followed by a polishing with Novus 2 and a buff with a dry paper towel. Tenite shines up just fine for me. I don't like my phones overly shiny, so I have no problem with a slightly dull sheen. Tenite will be a little less shiny than ABS plastic and that's the charm of it. Be very careful with denatured alcohol on Tenite. It's easy to melt the plastic and make the logo areas not as sharp.

Denatured alcohol does wonders on the cords on all phones and also works well on ABS (hard plastic) to get off paint spots and embedded dirt. It doesn't require the rubbing compound step or the Novus 2 unless someone has dulled the plastic with something harsh like steel wool or a scrubbing pad. Usually all that's required is denatured alcohol for me, but then I don't like things super shiny.

I hope that helps answer some of your questions, Charles.

[Charles]

Thanks very much for the responses. This helps a lot.

[WEBellSystemChristian]

Jonathan;

That's odd. I have bleached Mediterranean Blue and Moss Green, and both returned to their original color very well. Of course, lighter colors do bleach faster.

[unbeldi]

I have said this before and will repeat it again and again if necessary.
Hopefully, some will stop making this mistake which is very confusing and misleading. 

FADING is not the same as DISCOLORATION, in fact they are opposites of each other.

The definition of fading is a diminishing of a property: Your energy fades as you tire.  The sunlight fades as the evening approaches.

A color that fades becomes white or transparent, i.e. non-existent.  Color fading is the effect of bleaching.  For example, when one bleaches the WECo pink plastics too much they literally become almost white.  I wish I had photographed this effect when I made that mistake, it is easily sanded away.
Fading is the result of bleaching a discolored phone. In the process the undesirable discoloration is removed.

The only WECo plastic that I know fades when exposed to light is the Tenite Acetate of the 302 in Old Rose (dash code 16) which literally becomes very light pink colored and quite translucent.  I have an example housing that shows this distinctly.  Although I don't have an example, I believe that the green 302 color (dash code 16) may be susceptible to that too. When dissolved in acetone, the green-16 produces a very light green solution, much different in intensity than, for example, red.

[Jim Stettler]

I have been looking online at some 50s era WE 500s.  I assume that some of these maybe soft plastic. I have several questions about soft plastic.

1) Does it scratch easier?
2) can you still polish it using novus type products?
3) do they discolor worse than ABS?

Any other disadvantages?

Thanks

The "soft" plastics smell distinctive  (some say like vomit).


JMO,
Jim S.

[LarryInMichigan]

According to what little I understand, Tenite Butyrate contains butyric acid (whose name comes from the Greek word for "butter") which is found in dairy products, hence the decaying cheese smell.  I wonder how a melted phone shell would taste on toast .

Some tenite items smell worse than others.  I have a c. 1950 Arvin radio with tenite knobs which stunk so badly that half the house smelled.  I had to spray them with clear lacquer to contain the smell.


Larry