The Case of the Incorrectly liten lights- 6 button key set

[WesternElectricBen]

Hi everybody,

Today I was trying to add a buzzer to my ITT/NT Green 564. Not only could I not find the leads for the buzzer but the lights would not light correctly. Refer to the pictures I took,

P1. When I push the line button, it also lights the intercom key or the final key
P2. When I push the second line button, it works fine.
P3. When I push the third line button, it works fine.
P4. INCORRECT PIC. REFER TO P6. When I push the fourth line button, it lights up the fourth key and the 5th key. (int.)
P5. When I push the final key (intercom key), it works fine.
P6. Shows the action of P4. on another telephone

This is the only phone that does this and a red one, which if I recall correctly the last button doesn't seem to work even though I swap out the lights.

Ben

[Phonesrfun]

I would focus my attentions on any wiring I had done myself at the punchdown.  It is easy to mistake pair colors or get one or two reversed.  Double check any and all manual wiring you have done.  To me it sounds like that kind of an issue.  I have been there and done that.  Maybe Phil (Weco355aman) can tell more exactly what is amiss by the actual lights that are lit or not. 


Also, are you sure the earlier phone is wired for 1A2, and not 1A1? 

[WesternElectricBen]

I would focus my attentions on any wiring I had done myself at the punchdown.  It is easy to mistake pair colors or get one or two reversed.  Double check any and all manual wiring you have done.  To me it sounds like that kind of an issue.  I have been there and done that.  Maybe Phil (Weco355aman) can tell more exactly what is amiss by the actual lights that are lit or not. 


Also, are you sure the earlier phone is wired for 1A2, and not 1A1? 

No, I don't think its the KSU's issue, just because every other phone works on it.

I am not exactly sure what it is wired for, its from 1964, but used up until the 80's.

Could it being 1A1 the fact it has no buzzer leads?

Ben

[Phonesrfun]

So, are you running the phone right out of the KSU .... no wire or other punch-down in-between?
Was it working before you wanted to add the buzzer?
Where did you get the KSU?
Are you adding a 10 volt buzzer or one that operates on ringing current?
Did you do any wiring changes inside the phone previously?
You did not mention anything about wheter you get dial tone on the buttons that behave oddly
What line cards do you have plugged in?


PS someone else such as Poplar1, or Phil or someone with more key system experience might have to help you with this one.  I have some, but I am not an expert

[Phonesrfun]

The common audible features are usually customizable.  Regular common audible comes in on the slate/yellow pair.

[Phonesrfun]

The 565 has a lot of stuff in it, and space is tight.  When you added the buzzer, is it possible that one of the spade tips on the buzzer you wired in crossed over and is touching another wire or connection inside the phone?  Something to check.

[poplar1]

 
Also, are you sure the earlier phone is wired for 1A2, and not 1A1? 

1A1 and 1A2 are wired the same. Sets modified for 1A are wired differently.

[WesternElectricBen]

Thanks for your help,

It's a 564 like mentioned previously.

Yes, I used a 10 volt buzzer and I should check if that's the issue where its touching another wire.

No other punch downs etc-Direct

I have not messed with the reining except trying to find the buzzer leads.

I hope that information will help, though I should try if the buzzer is making that problem, though I doubt it.

Ben

[poplar1]

Not that this will help, but I always look for swapped black-orange and black-brown on one or more cables since they look alike.

What kind of intercom are you using? If you are using a self-contained outboard intercom such as a Melco or Tone Commander, then you don't need the A lead--black-brown--for line 5 in order for the lamp to work. That could explain why only the intercom key lights up as it should when last key is pressed.

Are you using any CPC adapters (for connecting 2 phones to one 25-pair amphenol connector)? These cannot be used with 565s or 2565s unless you insulate and store the violet pairs. Otherwise, if a line key is pushed down on one phone,  and a different line key pushed down on the other phone, both lines will light up if either phone goes off-hook.

Some (not all) ways to make L5 (lamp on last button) illuminate when it shouldn't:

--S-Bk L5  lead connecting to 10VAC (possibly crossed with Br-W lamp lead L1 or O-Bk lamp lead L4)

--With a 400-type line card for line 5:  shorting 5A (Black-Brown) to ground.

[poplar1]

Buzzer is usually connected to yellow-green (WE) or yellow-orange (ITT) pair. I don't know which one NE used.

Was everything working before you attempted to install a buzzer?

[WesternElectricBen]

Yellow Orange is what I have been using.

We have an outboard intercom using the last key for the intercom. It works on every other phone, FYI.

We are also using K400E cards.

No I am not using any adapters.

So what I should do, disconnect buzzer, and if that does not fix the problem, disconnect the brown-black. (which I think is already disconnected)

Ben

[WesternElectricBen]

I removed the buzzer and it still shows the same issues.

[WesternElectricBen]

More info:

The intercom works on line 1 button, 4 button, and line 5 button

Ben

[poplar1]

If it was working before you connected the buzzer, then, yes, try disconnecting that first.

I referred to black-brown (black with brown spots), not brown-black. However, neither brown-black or black-brown needs to be cross-connected.

On a 564, Brown-black doesn't exist past the cable from the KSU. A1 (orange-white) is the ground for all A leads for all lines whether 6, 10, 12, 18, 20, 24 or 30 buttons. So there is no need for Slate-White, Green-Red, Blue-Black or Brown-Black to have anything cross-connected for any 6-button set.

[poplar1]

More info:

The intercom works on line 1 button, 4 button, and line 5 button

Ben

Phil can probably solve this in about 2 seconds. But try disconnecting the amphenol plug from the intercom.