Nice candlestick spotted recently

[CanadianGuy]

I was working in this guys apartment, and he happened to mention he had an old candlestick. I'm assuming it's the real deal. What do you think?

Oh, and if my post is a poor one, feel free to delete it.

Thanks

[Ktownphoneco]

It's a little hard to tell what it is "CG".   All of the helpful indicators are hidden.     For example, the tag on the transmitter face plate, markings on the back of the transmitter cup if there are any, and the stamping on the back of the perch.    They all help in determining exactly what it is, and it's approximate age.    But here's what I notice about the set.    "IF" it's a genuine desk stand, and "IF" it's a Canadian made Northern Electric, the lack of markings on the base would indicate it was made by the Northern Electric & Manufacturing Co. Ltd., (1895 to 1914 ).    The early N.E. & Mfg. Co. Ltd., sets were type 20-B, nickel plated and the base was not marked with the company's name.   Sometime around 1910, give or take, the base was marked with the company's full name, and 20-S was produced, which was painted black.
The receiver is a much later type of receiver, and most likely has a receiver  cartridge like the "HA1" or similar style of cartridge inside.        The transmitter mouth piece appears to be a reproduction, and not an original.     Looking through the small holes in the mouth piece, I can see what appears to be a more modern transmitter cartridge of some type.     Normally, if the transmitter is of the original carbon button type, the diaphragm which is in front of the button, sits far enough back from the mouth piece, to be all but invisible.     A black void is the only thing that would be visible until the mouth piece is removed.
The last thing I noticed is the receiver hook appears to be a one piece cast or forged hook.    I haven't encountered any early Northern desk stands to have a one piece receiver hook.    They were a two piece hook, riveted together.      One piece receiver hooks were used on the early wall telephone sets
When the Bell Telephone Company of Canada made their own telephones, they may have used the one piece hook copied from Western Electric, but I've never had the opportunity to fully examine a Bell Telephone desk stand, so I don't know.

The other option, is that the set "MAY" be made up of Western Electric parts.     The round edge of the circular base of the perch isn't Northern, and is more indicative of the later version of a Western perch used on that company's desk stands.       Western also used one piece receiver hooks on their wall sets, but you'll need input from one of the forum's American collectors who are very familiar with Western desk stands to fill in the blanks insofar as the characteristics of the sets produced by that company.

If you happen to get another opportunity to photograph the set, see if you can get several more pictures from the side and back of the set, and if the fellow doesn't mind, unscrew the mouth piece and get a picture of the "tag" on the transmitter face plate.

Jeff Lamb
       

[CanadianGuy]

Wow, thanks for the detailed explanation! I don't know that I'll ever see him again, unless I get called out on another repair for his TV or internet. I took another photo but didn't post it because it's slightly blurry. I'll post it anyway. And now I know what to look for in the future! I don't know that the average person would want to dismantle their precious phone, unless they're aware that it's fine to do so, but I'll ask if it arises.

Thanks again!

[Jack Ryan]

It looks like a WE 20PC or nickel plated 20AL. It has a "drop hook" that was used on the early examples.

As Jeff said, the mouth piece is a reproduction and the receiver might be as well - perhaps a 706A. Also as Jeff said, it looks like there is a modern transmitter element inside.

For some reason I can't get the image to zoom so I can't tell much more.

Regards
Jack

[poplar1]

Receiver looks more like a repro than a 706A.

Note that there are no patent dates on the base. Western Electric plain bases were most often used with early 20-Bs and 20-S, which had the patent dates below the model number on the lug holder (perch).  When the dates were added to the base, they were no longer stamped below the model number, so far as I know.

However, the drawn lug holder is the type used with  WE 20-BC and later models.

[Sargeguy]

Looks like a "Frankenphone" composed of Western Electric parts of different periods and some repro parts.  It may have been nickel plated at some point.